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Who is Behind the Anti-CNN Website?
Written by Robert Vance on April 20, 2008 – 10:55 amHello my Chinese friends. The article that you are looking for is below. When you are finished reading, I invite you to share your thoughts and opinions on our website forum. There is no need to register. When you post, your comment will be shown immediately. Please click here to tell me what you think.
I checked out the infamous ’Anti-CNN’ website tonight after spending a week hearing my students gush with love and admiration over it. This ‘one page wonder’ is full of links, media images, and YouTube videos that ‘expose’ the follies of the Western Media who are apparently creating ”lies and fabricated stories” about Tibet. It’s interesting for about two minutes but then it get’s old really fast. After all, we already know what the Chinese government tell its people what to think about about the Western Media. Chinese people are ’spoonfed’ by the state controlled media from the moment they first see daylight. They are told that the West distorts the truth because it hates China. Again, that’s old news. What interests me more, however, are the English descriptions and phrases on the page. For a website that was supposedly set up by “some students” in Beijing, the English on the website is much better than I would have expected. Usually, English translations on Chinese websites (even very well known websites) are full of grammatical errors and often don’t make sense. This leads me to wonder who exactly is behind the website. Is it a collaborative effort with other Chinese students who are living abroad? If that is the case, there is probably much more to the website than meets the eye. Tonight I tried to post a question about this on the Anti-CNN website forum. Unfortunately (or conveniently), I cannot post a message on the website until 12 hours after I have registered.
I am also wondering if someone will set up an anti-CCTV/Xinhua website. Sure, I could do it, I suppose. But I can only guess that I would spend a lot more time and fill up many more pages than our anti-CNN comrades in Beijing have. The information that is displayed on the anti-CNN website seems to ’smack’ more of simple mistakes and errors in judgement rather than intentional deception. But, that’s just me talking. I’m a Westerner myself so I’m naturally biased, right?
CNN is China’s favorite punching bag at the moment. To my anti-CNN Chinese friends who are under a government that controls half their brain I can only say “you know not what you are saying or doing.” For that, they should be pitied, not condemned. They are just parrots who repeat what they are told by a government that routinely buries the truth in the deepest hole that it can find. That is why I believe that Jack Cafferty’s comments were directed at the Chinese government. And his analysis, crude as it was, hit home with Beijing because what he said was true.
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[...] For a followup to this story, check out the post Who is Behind the Anti-CNN Website? [...]
>But, that’s just me talking.
>I’m a Westerner myself so I’m naturally biased, right?
The whole world is witness of a bloody military grade psychological warfare attack coordinated in behalf of the NATO by the NED.
You are just a brainwashed victim of your biased media. Where is this free Western media when it comes to discuss bringing people like George W Bush to prison for murdering a million people in an illegal war in Iraq?
Where is this free Western media when it comes to demand answers to all the questions that 9/11 was an inside job as was the incident in the gulf of Tonkin?
Where is this free Western media when it comes to investigate whether “Al qaeda” is a department of the CIA?
Why the free Western media are so silance on things like Gladio, Operation Mockingbird and ST CIRCUS, that you probably never heard about.
Carl Bernstein gave a partial answer about western media 30 years ago in his article “The CIA and the media”. Since then, the situation got much worse in the USA. But China is well doing defending itself against the US-led PSYWAR attack against it.
Thank you Robert, for telling us once again what a brainwashed Westerner thinks or acts on something he doesn’t know with such an arrogant attitude. I understand you totally. With a homeland having barely 200 years of history, you know nothing about paying attention to others’ history and culture. all you said could be seen as a vivid description of yourself, who surfed on the anti-cnn website just to look for flaws, who thought the English on the website was too good to be spoken by Chinese people. Pity you Robert.
I’m here to express my gratitude for you, because as an English major who love the American culture since highschool, my faith in the Western free media and just voice was suddenly gone, nor for what my country said, but for what you guys presented.
[...] early afternoon today, a viewer on the Anti-CNN website placed the entire text of my recent post Who is Behind the Anti-CNN Website? in a forum post. Surprisingly, they also posted a link to my website and ever since then, I have [...]
hahahahahahaha. All I can do is laughing now. Do you have any idea how high English level a well-educated Chinese can reach? Not to mention those who have stay abroad for many years. You have a great logic, which is that the anti-CNN is manipulated by government because there is no grammar errors in the frontpage! What a smart guy!
While this supersmart Mr. Vance pointed out that all chinese are stupid and brainwashed, he seemed not realized that he himself also hold some kind of presumption and prejudice infused by his own education system. But I know Mr.Vance will never call those brainwashing, because according to dictionary in his own country, the word BRAINWASH can only be used upon enemy countries like china.
some great logic from westerners:
1 Chinese can never be rich. If they live a good life, their lives must be achieved at the cost of more poor people’s lives.
2 Chinese can never say anything good about their own country. If they do, they must be brainwashed or be influenced by the propagandas made by CCP
3 Chinese must never protest against western countries, because western countries can never be wrong about anything especially issues about china. If people support their own countries, they must be manipulated by the government.
4 Chinese can never gain any advanced techniques because all Chinese are stupid. If they do, they must steal them from western countries.
and so many other various logic evolved from the above.
too bad another westerner wants to define chinese people’s life. Have you ever go through chinese education? How do you know that the gov tell the people to hate western people? All though CCP has told many lies about himself, which gov on the earth doesnt. Exactly opposite of what you think, CCP seldom lie about the world outside of China. Before the Tibet event, we have received too many good images of western countries. We admired your great achievement and your good manner. We thought the western media is so fair and objective comparing with CCTV. We thought western ppl would have no bias on Chinese and will be friendly. But all of a sudden, we found that all of those good impressions turn out to be delusions. You so-called freedom fighters attack crazily not only Chinese government but Chinese people, the whole race. You lectured us in a condescending way as if we are such a inferior race. You distort truth and modified pictures to create lies trying to humiliate us. However, you have caused a serious consequence that Chinese become furious. We are furious because of the insult you gave us and unfair double criteria you hold. So, how dare you say its the Chinese government teach us to hate. Just think!
In the same way that 1 plus 1 doesn’t equal 3, not every non-chinese is a Chinese hater or looking to denegrate the Chinese. Commenting or having a different opinion is not also arrogance. The current diatribe and anti-western stance of the educated Chinese middle class is a result of emerging nationalism and pride. Nothing wrong with that. With little opportunity for public politics, blaming non-chinese is an easy past-time. But please, just because someone has a different opinion don’t jump to generalisations. Having a culture of 200 years, 10,000 years or whether Chinese owe their genetic origins to Africa, discourse can be promoted without resorting to insults.
Longjob,
Good point. You can suggest to grant voting rights to Chinese students or employees in US. They will pass their time with a more fun Hillary and Obama campaign instead of scrutinizing the facts about Tibet and Dalai and CNN’s misleadings.
Proverb in China “one time seeing is better than hundred times hearing” “Einmal Sehen ist besser als Hundertmal Hoeren”
To know the truth, evidence is important and also be patient to listen both sides. That’s way to avoid brainwashed. We are able to see your articles and able to talk with you in English, German and French. How about you? Can you talk with us in Chinese and read in Chinese website? Where is your media source?only western media source and only from Dalai’s website. So what is more likly to be brainwashed? Think about it.
Your perception about China is 30 years behind the reality. We welcome to China and to Tibet as “one time seeing is better than hundred times hearing”
Hello Jason,
I think that you are making some unfair assumptions. First, how do you know that I cannot speak or read in Chinese? How do you know that I am not daily exposed to the Chinese media? You really don’t know what I read or watch on a daily basis and you don’t know what languages I speak. I am not going to give you the story of my life but I will tell you that I am well aware of both sides of the story. I see that you also seem to be aware of both sides and I congratulate you but unfortunately, most of my Chinese friends do not hear the other side of the story. I completely agree with you. The only way to be fair is to listen to both sides of the story. I always do that.
You mention the Dalai’s website. Truth be told, I didn’t even know that one existed. Perhaps you could leave the link in a comment sometime.
Yes, I didn’t know that you were living in China at first. After having browsed the website, I really knew the fact which I commented at the other comments area. Sorry for that.
So how about most of westerners, do they hear both sides of story? They just listen western media stories. Although you have known both sides of the story, do you believe any news from Chinese government?
There is one important is the credibility. How many percent could you give to Chinese government? Actually from you heart, it’s almost 0. Yeah, this is my assumption. Most of Westerners don’t want to take a single looking.
That’s why the anti-cnn comes up will be blamed (not by you) as funded by government or the people there were brainwashed. Does it make sense?
So credibilty is first thing need to be solved. Why did Chinese government have no credibility in Western sociaty? First of All, media takes the big role to make it happen. When you see CNN or other media, first thing they mention is Chinese communist government (Actually China has been on the way of free market for 20 years). Second, there is no positive reports about China. All things about China are negative.
Hi Jason,
I do not trust what any government tells me. The U.S. government frequently misleads its own people. Fortunately, the media in the U.S. is not run by the government. CNN is a private company. In fact, if you watched CNN, you would observe that they often say bad things about the U.S. government. So you’re right, I don’t have a lot of trust in what your government or what my government says because it is the nature of most government to hide the truth from the people.
I think most people in the West recognize that the Chinese government is no longer a communist system. However, your country’s party does continue to call itself ‘the Communist Party’ so I do not think that you can blame the Western Media for calling China a Communist country.
Is it true that there are no positive reports about China in the Western media? Actually, I think you are wrong on that point. The Western media has continually lauded China’s economic growth and development. I think that at this precise moment in time, it may seem that all of the news coming from the West is negative because of the recent incidents in Tibet and the protests in China. However, if you dig a little deeper, I think you may be pleasantly surprised to find that there is actually a lot of positive news about China from the West.
Hi Bob,
You don’t trust doesn’t mean that China government must lie to you. For example, serfdom system in Tibet, they provided the history photos and videos. That’s the prove. And also in the meuseum, we could find corresponding evidences. And what Chinese government told about the serfdom system could be proved by the some westerner’s video.
http://www.dalai-liar.com/videos.htm#True%20Tibetan%20History
Yes, the news from China government may not tell the news in the full story, they may cover something. That’s know issue. But we could look other sources to compensate the missing parts. But your western media also hided something and praised the Dalai ruled system as “peaceful loosely theocracy” which in fact was the serfdom. And currently the media were trying to create some “crackdown” by using Nepal police’s photos.
Please verify the history first. That’s really very important for credibility. You don’t like to view Xinhuanet, now the above link possessing some videos from Western researchers. Please verify.
Robert Vance, your comment…………For a website that was supposedly set up by “some students” in Beijing, the English on the website is much better than I would have expected…..disclosed how isolated of reality and touch you are of Chinese students. I am deeply suspicious of your racial slant, that is Chinese students cannot write good English.
I been to China and do business for decades, met young and old including young students. I want to feel the real up- and-coming China, particularly the youth generation, to make long-term business decisions. I encountered so many students who write English good enough for a Queens’ Counsel presentation in the UK Privvy Council..
Your argument is yet another example of the “slippery slope” logical fallacy China bashers will happily used to deny the media thuggery against China and Chinese people. Your logic is ALL Chinese students cannot write good English and therefore the anti-cnn website must be funded and supported by other vested interests with perhaps deep pocket who can hire promoters and authors with excellent command of English to take on CNN and hyppocritical liars like them.
I been there often and was doing business there when you were probably a todler. You either have not been to China or just got off the plane. Is that not true??
China is a dictatorship, the government is corrupt, the police are corrupt, the judiciary are corrupt, the education system is corrupt - these are all things that most ordinary people in China will admit and yet the most important thing to all of you so-called ‘patriots’ from anti-CNN.com is to criticise the media in other countries and simply ignore anything that makes your country look bad - please explain why.
Foarp, you are a marvel of descript and your interpretation of facts and situations existing in China leave me giggling. What your notion and measure of of democracy? Is it generations of American Presidents lying about the Gulf of Tonkin naval aggression against Vietnam to deceive American and world opinion for America to have entered and escalated the war in Vietnam under false pretense which ended only after 4 million Vietnamese were killed? Do you favour a democracy of free speech where you have Hillary Rodham Clinton, a compulsive liar on her Bosnia adventure (with Chelsea Clinton present in witness of these lies which only media record exposed the vote-buying lies) still standing on the public stage and demanding the opportunity to seek the highest public office of the land as a future US President? More lying and more deception so that the world will be a more and more dangerous place to live for mankind? Is your virtue of democracy is Geoge Bush Jnr lying about the alleged existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and manipulating world opinion to enter and escalate the war in Iraq in which over another million were killed already and counting by the seconds? Is the US police force not corrupted in which African Americans in detention not routinely beaten, even one prosecuted case of anally raped with an blunt wooden instrument causing greivous, near fatal injury caused to a African American in detention? Is your Judiciary not corrupted which could acquitted the assailants of Rodney King on the street and video-tapped by US citizens. Is your judiciary so respected that a judge sued a dry cleaner for a pair of pants for an obscene amount expecting the Juidicary to hear his case and give him a favourable decision? Was Martin Luther King proud to be an American on matters of civil rights before he was assassinated? Is your Government so dignified and caring of its citizenry which left Mr. McCain, the Republic nominee, to scream that the rehabiliation of katrina victims a “national disgrace” and the Republicans currently holds the US Presidency? And is China a real dictatorship as you claimed? As far as I know, and the world will agree with me, their leadership changed hands every few years, and through those leadership changes, the continuity of economic development brought immense wealth and uplifting of their entire nation’s economic well-being such that those below the poverty line is now a small minority. And if that political leadership are so corrupt a dictatorship, how come foreign heads of state from all over the world are queueing at China’s doorstep to do business with each and every generation of Chinese leaders in the last 30 years, including not less than Mr. Richard Milhouse Nixon, Mr. George Bush (Snr) and Mr. George Bush (Jnr) himself. Do I need to explain more to China bashers or those hypocritical western media?
Lee,
Thanks for your comments. If you closely read what I wrote in my post, you will see that I was making a comparison between Anti-CNN websites and other ‘English’ websites from China. Do you speak two languages? I happen to speak Spanish as a second language. Even though I consider myself to be fluent in the language (and also majored in the language) I know that I will always make small grammar mistakes in my writing. It is pretty easy to tell the difference between a non-native and native writer. I was simply making an observation that the English on the website was near flawless and had a native ring to it. Unfortunately, you and others, who are so eager to accuse the West of bashing Chinese people are quick to jump on my words and try to guess what I was thinking when I wrote them. That is your right, but I want to tell you that you have misunderstood my meaning.
As far as my background in China, it is clear that you have not bothered to look around on this site. If you click on the ‘about’ button which is located on the top right hand corner of this page or browsed through some other articles, you will discover that I have been living and teaching in China for some years now. I have also traveled, as you have, throughout this great country. Without going into any specifics, I will also tell you that I have a very ‘close’ family member who is Chinese. You are welcome to disagree with me and come to your own conclusions about what I wrote, but please don’t condescend to me.
While it may be true that the Western media has ‘a bone to pick’ with the Chinese government, I think it is unfair to suggest that they are involved in “thuggery” against the Chinese people. It sounds like you are just like many of my Chinese friends who take every negative comment made about their government personally. Can you prove to me that the Western media has insulted personally the Chinese people? If I took to heart every negative comment made about George Bush and his administration, I would have jumped out of my 15th story window. Stop being so senstive about what others are saying about the Chinese government.
Lee, thanks for posting on my blog. I do appreciate your comments and I hope to hear again from you soon.
Robert Vance,
Thanks for your rejoinder. If you read carefully what you wrote…..Chinese people are ’spoonfed’ by the state controlled media from the moment they first see daylight. They are told that the West distorts the truth because it hates China. Again, that’s old news. …
One must have the impression that you subscribe the views you expressed
specifically the paragraph above you wrote, that is, it is true to your knowledge (???) that Chinese Government told their people that the West distorts the truth because it hates China..In stating so, you said that’s old news WITHOUT DENYING that “those news” are false to your knowledge or must be known to be false to your knowledge by virtue of your experience there.
I been to China long enough and since you said you were teaching there for a couple of year now, you must know that the youth of China adore the West, their culture, their music, their technology, even their race and ethnicity. The Chinese Government took in a lot of foreigners from Western Europe, America, New Zeland and Australia to help them with their development efforts and you are part of that picture. You must therefore know that your statement - incomplete of your required denial for objectivity - is false. The Chinese Government could not have told its people that the West distorts the truth and that the West hates China.
If you honestly believe that there is a native ring to those running the anti-cnn website, why didn’t you state your conviction of belief openly and give those at anti-cnn and your readers including me the opportunity to agree or refute. One read often of forumites elsewhere in the blogosphere proposing that anti-cnn is Chinese Government’s orchestrated. It is ridiculous - no sovereign government degrade itself so low to engage in this level of undignified mud-slinging in the public arena but does your reader appreciates this?
By insinuating a bigger undisclosed involvement than more likely a bunch of aggrieved students in this anti-cnn website, your forum is going to attract the least desirable of uninformed discussion from hystericals hell bent of all imaginable criticisms of China and what this anti-cnn as an alleged tool of Chinese Government instead of informed debate. You left the door (deliberately or accidentally??) wide open for wolves to attack, unreasonably and i have already seen in the contribution one in this forum already.
And there is no reason why anyone running this anti-cnn website could not be of distinguished writing skills comparable to native English speakers. In my years there, I have noticed that many young Chinese students, though not as verbally skilled in the command of the English Language are actually extremely proficient in the written command of that language. I was taken by surprise. I suspect that there could be a cultural explanation to that - young Chinese students listen a lot more than they speak when relating to foreigners like me but when they write silently, they had time to reflect carefully about words of expressions and subject-matters. I met many in Beijing who spoke with strong American accent. So you should not have assumed that all Chinese cannot write flawless English just because it is a Chinese website. You only need one Chinese student, among the millions of Chinese students, skillful in English Language without needing the assistance of a native speaker to do what he or she has done of the descriptions or phrases on that web page.
You should not paint a broad brush that all Chinese cannot write good English and if there is good writing displayed, it must be of implied import of unknown intent, particularly with respect to the sensitivity of issues appertain to anti-cnn website. This is your failure of writing. If you disagree with contributions to this anti-cnn website, it is your right and privilege to disagree. Anti-cnn website is a public forum like any other, you do not attack the integrity of forum organiser to deny others like me a fair opportunity of airing my views therein as i viewed it as a respected platform of informed debate.
And as for your dissatisfaction of my comment of thuggery against Chinese people - it is not in relation to you personally. It is the comments I came across in other blogs - the easiest one I recall would be CNN’s Jack Cafferty’s ‘goons and thugs over the last 50 years” initially silent as to who these “goons and thugs” were and when pressed for apology, reference was made to the Chinese Government. How do you know that jack Cafferty had originally intended that “goons” were the Chinese Government and the “thugs” where those Chinese who in the quote of Sir Sebastian Coe, who can’t speak English. There are perhaps over a billion Chinese who can’t speak English. How amazing you that you could pretend no awareness of this media thuggery against China and Chinese people when you are standing on the side of CNN watching anti-cnn public stature? . Imagine for a sober moment, if I screamed at your father and mother in a public arena and called them a “goons and thugs” for the last 50 years in front of you, what does that convey to the public ear of the education and upbringing your parents brought to you? Am I not, in those circumstances, insulting your parents and you or just insulting your parent only? And what about media frequent quote that Sir Sebastian Coe, calling Chinese relay torch security personnel as ‘thugs who can’t speak English” as if this reference to “thuggery” was a fair descript of Chinese travelled with the olympic flame who can’t speak English as a worthy description of truth in the (responsible?) media? Just like you, Western media state the adverse race-tainted comment of Sir Sebastian Coe, without denying that the remark made is unfounded of truth. When I see these sorts of negligent representations to less perceptive audiences in cyberspace, do I not have a right to protest of half-truth or knowing lies presented as incomplete truth?
I do not think that I am sensitive about what others says of the Chinese Government. China is not my country and their Government is neither positive or negative to my business success in the past. Like you, I am a foreigner whenever I am in China BUT I STRONGLY RESENT TRUTHS DISTORTED AS LIES AND LIES DISTORTED TO PRESENT AS TRUTHS. I am all for responsible media. What happened in Tibet was riot expression of politically-motivation violence, not a peaceful demonstration of protest. The authorities acted with unbelievable restraints as foreign tourists testified. Western media alleged violent represssion - well orchestrated falsehood to influence public opinion. THAT IS WRONG and abuse of freedom of expression in democracy.It is these kind of irresponsible media and publishing and manipulation of public opinion which enabled unscrupulous politicians in the West hijacking civilisation down the road to needless wars - Vietnam and now Iraq. Do you celebrate all these needless bloodshed and misery brought to other cultures, Mr. Vance?
@Lee - Once again, why is criticising CNN more important than criticising the corruption which is so prevelant in China - and which everyone admits is prevelant? Why do the so-called ‘patriots’ of anti-CNN spend all their time criticisng what happens in other countries and ignoring China’s faults? Why is what Cafferty, the mayor of Paris or anyone else outside of China so important that people would want to launch boycotts, but no-one thinks of the idea of, say, boycotting the pirate DVD sellers and brothels that operate quite publicly and with the consent of the police in China?
Who damages China more? Cafferty or the people who operate the 黑车 un-licenced taxis in Shenzhen? Has the major of Paris done more to harm China’s reputation than the people who operate brothels so prominently in the 父子庙 area of Nanjing? Has Carrefour done nearly as much damage to China as BASF’s dumping of chemicals into the Yangzi river has? Did the lone protester who tried to grab the torch of Jin Jing in Paris harm China in the way that Changbaishan Jingxi Chemical Co. did when they released poisonous chemicals into the Songhua river turning it red? Or are you going to tell me that all of the people who ride in unlicenced taxis, who visit the brothels in fuzi miao, who work for BASF and Changbaishan Jingxi Chemical are all French or American?
Hi Foarp,
We know China has more problems as you described. It doesn’t mean that Media has the right to lie about the Chinese government about the truth. It doesn’t mean that Chinese should not have the right to protest the bias reports.
For example, if the person got fever, it doesn’t mean that the others could say he get the cancer. It doesn’t mean that this person has no right to defend himself and talk to the others when he was blamed.
Your question looks like since you are sick why you should cure your sick first and then you have the right to defend yourself. Is it ridiculous?
@Jason - But what Lee is saying is that he does not recognise that China has any problems, and that what problems it has all come from foreigners. This is why I say that many of the people on anti-CNN seem to think that patriotism means attacking anyone who points out your country’s problems, rather than loving your country and trying to do the best you can for it. In short, I doubt their patriotism.
Foarp, I am afraid that your sensitivity has turned this debate into a twisted knot of distortion but I will, in utmost good faith, attempt to sort it out for you.
There is no statement that I have made which explicitly assert…and I quote you here…”.does not recognise that China has any problems, and that what problems it has all come from foreigners” This is your perception or concoction of falsehood.
My rejoiner to your post did questioned the same historical failures, defaults, hypocrisy, corruption in the Western democracy which you ranted of….”China is a dictatorship, the government is corrupt, the police are corrupt, the judiciary are corrupt, the education system is corrupt …” What I attempted to do then was to illustrate a balanced picture that political institutions were as ugly and of as degradingly dismal failures in BOTH THE WESTERN CULTURE as one might condemn of similar deficiencies in China as you stated.
I DID NOT DENY OR ADMIT BY ANY STATEMENT that China was faultless. Mr. Jason Ding, reading through the various posts, would have to agree that your opening line of attack….that I (he)he does not recognise that China has any problems, and that what problems it has all come from foreigners…..is your emotional outburst which, must to your own knowledge, has no basis of truth. It is your false interpretation of what YOU think transpired in my mind when I wrote my little “thesis”.
Quite simply, it is within 10 seconds of my time to demolish this lie by asking you two simple questions - First, is my head sitting on my shoulder or your shoulder, Mr. Foarp, and if you say the truth that my head is sitting on my shoulder, my next question will be - if it is sitting on my shoulder, not yours, Mr. Foarp, how do you know what I am thinking in my mind except in your furthest wildest imagination?
As for issues raised in your other post, I want to be clear of this point. I am NOT a patriot of anti-cnn but I am a patriot of which anti-cnn seeks to achieve. I am all for responsible media of objective reporting and informing BUT dead against deceptive creepy journalism seeking to influence public opinion for undisclosed intent. This applies to all media. Having disposed of this perception, I shall now move on to issues you have raised in your rejoiner. I welcome your contribution, no less than from anyone else.
You wrote….@Lee - Once again, why is criticising CNN more important than criticising the corruption which is so prevelant in China - and which everyone admits is prevelant? An impulsive instinct of anyone else may retort back to you with this….why is criticising CNN NOT more important than criticising corruption in China?
You are entittled to your preference of considered priority as a matter of human rights, am I NOT, by that same measure of human rights, entittled to my preference needing your criticism of my preference, Mr. Foarp?
Unless of course you want to assert your human rights is superior to mine. Do you, Mr. Foarp? But I think such arguments is pointless of substance and value. So, please permit me the indulgence of another perspective.
I would say that corruption is as pervasive in China as the corruption exists in the New York Police Department or the LAPD or any American Presidency ( their lies brought America into Vietnam War and Iraq) , so how do you measure which one is more profound debasement, Mr. Foarp?
It goes back to the simple wisdom taught in Chinese culture ( I learnt that from my Chinese business counterparts) - the first person who grabbed the excrement and throw at another has his or her hand more fouled of such waste than the victim picking up the excrement to retaliate his/her offending party. By this logic, can you explain to me your virtue, wisdom and posivitism of excrement throwing at China when this great nation does not throw at you or any other culture?
You know from your experience, that Chinese nation are very reserved in condemning the failures of other countries, why do you find in necessary to instigate a class of cultures??
It totally beats my sanity of thoughts why you are motivated to compare the “merit” of criticising the corruption in China relative to criticising CNN. Can you explain back to me and this forum?
I do not know your background but I have had long business experience in China. I DO NOT GET THE EXPERIENCE OF PERVASIVE CORRUPTION in China as you and some Western media attempts to protray China at its unimaginable worst. Do you have any proof that members of Chinese Central Politbureau on the take or every member of Provincial Government on the take? Do you know that there are other places in the world where businessman found it almost necessary to leave US$ in the passport at custom point to check in smoothly. I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED THIS IN CHINA going through any airports in China since time immemorial. Have you had to bride your way in?
My business experience tells me that there are pockets of corruption in China BUT NOT PERVASIVE, SYSTEM-WIDE THAT EVERY SEAT OF AUTHORITY OR POWER IS ON THE TAKE. There are many good people of integrity who hold responsible public office there. You have not been around and met as many bureaucracy as I did. Which is why it is baseless to me of your comparison as to which is more important - criticising CNN or corruption in China.
As for Cafferty and Mayor of Paris, their behaviour is annoying to my good taste and good sense BUT UNIMPORTANT to me. They obviously offended Chinese sensitivities, I understand Chinese feelings in the same way I understood American feelings when 9/11 struck down the World Trade centre. Is Chinese national pride any less than American or any other nationality including mine? I
know that when 9/11 struck, Palestinians in occupied territories celebrate with joy, I was not surprised at all - not that I think it is good taste. Have you asked why rational human being in Middle East celebrate the 9/11 attack when the rest of the world expressed shock and indignation? What caused them to behave so apallingly?
As for brothels in China, there are plenty. I saw that as much as you seen them. But I also saw brothels in Soho, London and Patpong in Bangkok and King’s Cross in Sydney, why is brothels in China of such a fascination to you and your urge to complain. Are you in some way grievous of their existence that you need to bring to my attention? I am puzzled BUT HAVE NO INTEREST TO NOTE EVEN THEIR EXISTENCE IN CHINA BECAUSE IT EXISTS EVERYWHERE ELSE. There is NO NOVELTY that it exists there any more than a NY Mayor who left public office in disgrace recently patronising a high-class prostitution ring while this hypocritical mayor is publicly prosecuting prostitution in the city of New Yrok. What hyppocrisy is this behaviour may I aks you?
For the record, brothels exists only because depraved men support their activities and I think that the Nordic countries did the right thing - prosecute the customers instead of the prostitutes if you want to eradicate prostitution as a social (necessary some might argue???) evil.
As for pirate DVDs. This is yet another big hypocrisy as human rights con industry. In China, I see so many foreigners buying pirated DVDs, why are these foreigners complained about copy right violations when so many foreigners personally supported its continued violations? If you want to take it further in degradation of this hypocrisy, can you or anyone else explain to me why Chinese nationals on holiday in Europe have to pay for visits to European museums displaying priceless Chinese artifacts of ancient history? China have never sold or loan these to European museums. They are robbed and stolen in wars of colonisations in the 18 century and these are the intellectual property rights of China and Chinese people. Chinese nationals have to pay for enjoying this history, cultures which were stolen from them. Is this fair?
What happened to protection of intellectual property rights here which Western governments come to China to lecture them on intellectual property rights as you have lectured me here.? Is it not totally hypocritical here much like the rubbish of human rights bullshits the West is heaping on cultures in the East? i can go on and on and on. But I shall restrained to save you further embarassment.
And in your final point. You wrote…..Or are you going to tell me that all of the people who ride in unlicenced taxis, who visit the brothels in fuzi miao, who work for BASF and Changbaishan Jingxi Chemical are all French or American?
I have a simple answer to this challenge of yours. It is s bit similar to my answer i gave you above to the intellectual property rights issue you brought up. In latin I believe, it is called “mens rea” - meaning guilty mind, guilty act. I would not know if they are all french or American. I have never made that assertion in any of my posts. If you found out that all brothel customers are necessarily and exclusively French or American, then it is news and discovery to me. I have learnt something from you post despite our disagreements. Thank you, Mr. Foarp.
@Lee - Intellectual property is a field in which I have some expertise, let me explain this in simple terms:
81% of counterfeit seizures entering the United States and 79% of seizures entering the EU are sourced from China, 82% of computer programs on the average Chinese computer are pirated, the vast majority of DVD touts operating on British streets are from Fujian province, many of the factories that produce these goods are owned by the PLA - I have all of this from the mouth of the Director-General of TAXUD, the EC tax and customs monitoring body. Now, certainly these imports would not being coming to the west if there wasn’t a demand for them, but there is no doubt as to who their main supplier is and the reasons why that is. Do expats in China buy pirate DVDs? Yes - but if you think that the 250,000 foreigners resident in China are sustaining the DVD industry then you really need your head examined.
As for prostitution, since coming to London I’ve only once been accosted in the street by ‘ladies of the night’, and I live in London’s least salubrious district - Mile End Road. Compare this to the street just off Fujian Lu in Nanjing - I think it’s called Tielu Beijie (铁路北街) in a residential district, a few hundred yards from a primary school, and only a short step from the south gate of Nanjing University of Finance and Economics, Tielu Beijie has 12 (I counted them) brothels operating quite openly - the police drive straight past them. The Confucius Temple (父子庙) district is much worse.
However, you probably blame all this on the influence of foreign culture and think that all China needs to do is rid itself of foreign influence and these problems will all solve themselves - but if you do you are mistaken, and are harming your country by thinking so.
And as a final example of how far up the corruption in the Chinese body politic goes, please explain to me your understanding of the connection between Jiang Zemin and Song Zuying(宋祖英)?
Congratulations, Mr Foarp, and thank you for your rejoiner.
81% of counterfeit seizures entering the United States and 79% of seizures entering the EU are sourced from China, 82% of computer programs on the average Chinese computer are pirated. Wow, impressive statistic but what about source credibility? Did you walked around all over China to have surveyed every computer in use to find out that…(in your words)….”82% of computer programs on the average computer are pirated..” and not 79% or 92% or perhaps 6%? You claim you had “some expertise” unsubstantiated of validity of this assertion. So are those statistics in your quote are of your unfounded assertion or you lifted it out of another hysterical China-bashing source and your “some expertise” lends dubious credibility to these impossible-to-substantiate statistical claims. The golden principle of deception is – if you must lie, be brief. The “some expertise” you claimed is nakedly brief. And if any portion of counterfeit seizures in US and EU of your assertion are correct, why are businessmen from these countries abetting these (undesirable?) counterfeit imports? Accessories have no respectability to point figure at the purveyor of wrong. The moral of false pretense is a bit that the highly-experienced-virgin-prostitute argument often found in public health sex survey. The simple truth is that no highly experienced prostitute is virgin!!
To put things in perspective of the copyright con industry preached so eloquently in the West. Please permit my indulgence of sharing my deeper thoughts with you on a subject you claimed some expertise but which I refused to claim on my part. You admitted on public record that in your numbers and assertion…”250,000 foreigners resident in China are sustaining the DVD industry then you really need your head examined”. Does that include you? You agreed that foreigners buy pirated DVDs – abetting a commercial violation and frowning the alleged source. There is an old Chinese saying – those who live in glass houses should really change their underwear in the basement. You obviously not doing the right thing by your dignity in this forum here by solely blaming those manufacturers of pirated DVD.
Again, your statistics makes me ticklish. How do you know that only 250,000 foreigners buy pirated DVDs or perhaps the millions of foreign tourists buying these pirated DVDs because they are cheap and functional? And if there is any unfortunate “virtue” (and I used the word virtues within inverted quotes here in offence of the word virtue ) flowing from the CNN and BBC false reporting of the politically-motivated and instigated riots in Lhasa, it is these perversions of responsible media subversive of truthful reporting in the subversion of good social order is the conveyance, by this irresponsible conduct, of a compelling message to a whole generation of Chinese youth that it is right to lie, deceive and forcibly DISREGARD for honesty in general and DISREGARD OF ANYTHING INTELLECTUAL TRUTH AND DISREGARD FOR THE PROTECTION OF INTELLECTUAL TRUTH OF PUBLISHING AND ACTION. Economic benefits of deception justify all means including violation of all truths. When this happens, please tell me and this forum how business can negotiate their future agreements on copy-right violations? Wealthy Chinese businessmen who had been to Europe would retort back – I paid for visit to your museum to enjoy my culture and history you robbed and stole from me – now, are you of moral credibility to demand my respect of copyrights?
The ignominy of all these copyright hoax is this – metaphorically speaking here, you are the very intelligent spider, you weave a beautiful cobweb of deceit and attempt to sell that deceit to me. I see through it all and I ask you the spider, where did this beautiful cobweb of deceit started?. Your answer is probably “ I don’t know”. And my answer to that is “If you don’t know, how can I do business with you!!” I do only clean respectable business as you demanded!!.
As for brothels along Fujian Lu in Nanjing, there are, as I said in my previous post, a non-event to me. Are you saying that Soho London has less density of brothels? London is a major financial centre of the world, it is not the rubbish dump well-suited for a brothel infestation, do you not agree with me?. It is only justifying cause to rant on this subject in this forum to anyone living on this planet if Great Britain has no prostitute or you cleaned them out of your society. The red-light districts of London has got a far longer history than Nanjing, what is your grouse of such “immorality” that has a longer shameful history in London than other major financial sectors like Zurich, Singapore or New York?
Your next comment….However, you probably blame all this on the influence of foreign culture and think that all China needs to do is rid itself of foreign influence and these problems will all solve themselves - but if you do you are mistaken, and are harming your country by thinking so….
I thought is mind-blocking. Noticed I did not use the word “mind- boggling” A lot of your observations of their culture, by your admission, are of foreign influence. I never alleged that. You admitted these to be true. Obviously, my earlier plea of “mens rea” have not sank in into you and maybe never will be. It is unfortunate but that is the way hysterical emotion will always rule rationality for some. My own thoughts are that of the late Deng Xiao Ping – when you opened the windows, some flies and insects will come in”. Live with that, and accept that as societal evolution and find its relevance in society in due course. Don’t point fingers when your own backyard has full of garbage and attracts even more stench and flies.
And finally, you asked about my…understanding of the connection between Jiang Zemin and Song Zuying. I will answer that truthfully and with resoluteness.
First of all, I don’t know what their precise relationship was. I will not speculate, add or subtract from what you have stated here. But I do know that Tony Blair (your former Prime Minister) and his significant other half, Cherie Blair ( a former judge in the British judicial authority) were reported in the press globally as having been apprehended on separate occasions, for fare evasion on British public transport. Having regard to their historic, social and community standing in Britain and public assessed stature on the global stage and also having regards to Tony Blair’s long impassionate fight for the cause of human rights and humanity on the global stage, I am a little disappointed and very much ashamed. What about you ( in regard to these ignominious events) as a very respectable Londoner living in a very respectable suburb in this globally-acclaimed city and civilization?.
Fare evasion is no more respectable than tax evasion and tax evasion is no more respectable than financial corruption in public office, do you not agree with me, Mr. Foarp?
And btw, did you read about the connection between Mr. Blair and Ms. Carole Caplin. If you didn’t, ask Lord Levy, the British Labour Party’s chief fund raiser.
I wait for your intelligent response, thank you!
Hello Lee,
Actually, all you have to do is read these statistics about copyrighting to a group of Chinese students or friends and they will instantly confirm that they are true. They may even tell you that the percentages quoted above are a little low. The Chinese may deny alot of the information coming from Western media outlets, but I have never heard anyone in China deny that counterfeiting is a huge business in China. In fact, many Chinese people are proud of this ‘dubious’ disticinction that has been given to China. They think that software and movies from the West are way to expensive and they aren’t bashful at all to tell me that they regularly buy these counterfeit products. I also talk to Chinese IT guys all the time who tell me that most computers sold in China do or will eventually have couterfeit software installed on them.
The point is, even when Chinese people themselves admit that a story from the West is true there are always going to be people like you who will try to discredit the story simply because they hate the West. That is your right. But please, before you try to discredit those counterfeiting statistics just because they come from the West, why don’t you ask around in China to see what people are saying. I think you will be surprised by what you hear.
Hello Robert Vance,
I would like to hear Mr. Foarp’s response to my rejoiner before commenting yours..
Thanks
“As for pirate DVDs. This is yet another big hypocrisy as human rights con industry. In China, I see so many foreigners buying pirated DVDs, why are these foreigners complained about copy right violations when so many foreigners personally supported its continued violations?”
@Lee,
Thanks for you convincible words, what you said is what I want to tell but I can not express very well in English.
Most of westerners like to buy pirate DVDs, asking us for help to buy.
Looking for prostitues is another case too.
But at the table, they wanna critisize against China. Really Hypocrisy attitude.
Jason Ding,
That is why I want to hear from Mr. Foarp personally his DEEP INNER thoughts on what I found and demonstrate here the offensively repulsive hypocrisy of those who claims superiority of morals, values, cultures, human rights, copy rights, political institutions and politicians and a whole load of garbage that many cultures in the East despise but politely remain silent.
I am sure you and readers of this forum would agree.
“And as a final example of how far up the corruption in the Chinese body politic goes, please explain to me your understanding of the connection between Jiang Zemin and Song Zuying(宋祖英)?”
Very insteresting, you also like such as Joke or rumor. Any trustful source or evidence about this story? If you wanna listen rumor in China, there are millions.
I think when you came to China, you just tried to find dark sides of China. Sounds like it’s your hobby. Everyday you put on colored eyes to look at China with a filter.
@Foarp,
Everyday you put on colored glasses to look at China with a filter.
@Foarp,
I just learned the word “Ad hominem” from Ivan, I think this word is really suitable for you. Learning from Ivan, I put this hat on you. Sorry for that.
@Lee - My ‘expertise’ comes from being a graduate student in IP at University of London CCLS (part of Queen Mary) and a trainee patent attorney, the statistics come directly from an EIPIN presentation given by the Director-General of TAXUD. Can you spell “cognitive dissonance”?
We English also have a saying “He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones”, yes, the west is a ‘glass house’ as they say, because our free media allows a generally accurate picture of life at all levels of society to be built up.
“The red-light districts of London has got a far longer history than Nanjing”
You obviously know little about the history of Nanjing, in fact poets were writing poems about the brothels of the Confucius temple area in Nanjing before London was even the capital of the UK, and while Soho certainly has its share, you cannot find brothels operating opnely on almost every street of every city in the country in the way that you do in China.
“Very insteresting, you also like such as Joke or rumor. Any trustful source or evidence about this story?”
None, but then there is no free media in China, unlike that which exists in the west, so there is no way of confirming this - however, everyone I have met in China over the age of 21 has heard this rumour and the majority believed it. No smoke without fire as they say.
It is the attempt to make out that all of China’s problems are due to foreign influence which is the most silly, self-deceiving and wrong-headed about your way of arguing. Lee, simply put, it shows that rather than being a patriot, you are a nationalist only.
Let me ask again: what have you done for China?
@Foarp,
Nazi said “lies says 1000 times, it becomes the truth”, you seems like this statement.
Let me ask you a question we 1.3billion Chinese people said Dalai lied to you and Western Media liedk, why you didn’t believe.
Your logic is at the condition of non free media we could believe any rumor if it could be repeated 1000 times. I wonder which university professor told you that. I feel it’s surprised to me. I wonder if Bob or Ivan agreed with you. Is the prevalent principle of western sociaty?
What do you expect me as normal Chinese to contribute to our country? I think I should be same as most westerners. I work hard and pay my tax to my country.At the time of crisis, we donated some money to the disaster area.Is there any different from elsewhere? We are just normal people.
“It is the attempt to make out that all of China’s problems are due to foreign influence which is the most silly, self-deceiving and wrong-headed about your way of arguing. Lee, simply put, it shows that rather than being a patriot, you are a nationalist only.”
When you are using this way to talk, what’s the difference between you and “愤青”? Quickly jumping into conclusion, and using so many inconvenient words to talk. After all, I never said that the current Chinese problems came from western sociaty. I don’t want to label you like that, it’s not my character. I don’t like to use any Hat to any one, because I don’t think it’s correct method. Debate is debate, it should be based on evidence and convincible words. The above one label you “Ad hominem”is just shown an evidence to Ivan, I could use the same way to label others. I wish all of us don’t use this word.
Jason,
It’s so nice of you to post a link to this page on the Anti-CNN Website. It looks like you are calling for backup. That’s fine. It isn’t the first time that someone on that site has linked to this site. Last time, there were three pages of people calling me names in the Anti-CNN forums. But my site traffic nearly doubled. You’re just bringing more attention to this website. Thanks again!
Mr. Foarp, at last you came back in with your masterpiece of thesis. I have been waiting, so I must offer my heartfelt thanks.
Not to miss my compliment to you, you were “a graduate student in IP at University of London CCLS (part of Queen Mary) and a trainee patent attorney.” Congratulations, I assumed you did graduated with top honours from the University of London. Well actually, I was enrolled in the LLB (external degree program by correspondence course) from the same University but decided not to pursue. Not classy enough I thought then and let it pass. Neither did I sought a place in “elite” business school at London Business School, or INSEAD or Harvard Business School in search of knowledge and skills.After 30 years of struggling efforts, I finally graduated with a Doctor of Philosophy from the world famous University of Society. You will see that it is no comparison to a trainee patent attorney.
You didn’t seems to understand the words “mens rea” but you tried to impress me and this forum with your imaginary skills of administrative law. Your comment …”free media allows a generally accurate picture of life at all levels of society to be built up.” I actually did a little search on the internet and came across this informative website …http://www.cfoi.org.uk/ which has the following mind-blogging advice. Please allow me the indulgence to quote some of its cold ugly truths to tickle your unbalanced sense of truth and falsity.. It says……
“The Campaign for Freedom of Information is an non-profit organisation working to improve public access to official information and ensure that the Freedom of Information Act is implemented effectively. The Campaign was set-up in 1984……If you believe Britain is too secretive a society, please support our work by making a donation….If you believe Britain is too secretive a society, please support our work by making a donation.”
And under the country heading “Great Britain”, I found a legislative law called “Freedom of Information Act 2000. That must prove that Britain despite its world acclaimed bragging of human rights was and still is a very secretive society and it needed a law called Freedom of Information Act 2000 to be enacted so recently as year 2000 to regulate and control public information access to all institutions of British Government.
In this environment of veiled secrecy protected by British law, how could you Mr. Foarp claim here without blushing of shame that your society is one with…..”free media allow a generally accurate picture of life at all levels of society to be built up.”
YOU LIED TO THIS FORUM ABOUT DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACCESS in the so-called “Great” Britain to claim superiority of your culture over China. You might have succeeded in deceiving the uninformed readers of this forum from China but this one dead rotting cat of democracy and freedom of information fell out of the bag of lies.
As for the pervasiveness of brothels in Nanjing and London, you obviously have not heard about the English expression – prostitution is the oldest profession and it is as old as civilization. One is public , the other one is hypocritically hidden just like the Spitzer – Dupre notoriety. Oh please, Mr Foarp, spare me a little bit of hypocrisy for once, won’t you?
Don’t patronize me with your morals on prostitution in any culture be it China or UK – a topic of peculiar interest to you and which obviously occupied so much of your thoughts in this informed debate. On my book, it is a NON-EVENT and of absolute on significance anywhere on planet earth.
Your next comment….”Very interesting, you also like such as Joke or rumor. Any trustful source or evidence about this story?” You stole it from someone else to conceal a point I raised about the public moral hypocrisy of Tony Blair & Cherie Blair of apprehended fare evasion and the tantalizing Ms. Carole Caplin connection with Tony Blair.
You are obviously uncomfortable to discuss the hypocrisy of your human rights posture in this forum in condemning another culture when your own political institutions, government has been shown to be rotting to the core. But I still congratulate you for the fact that you did know how to spell correctly the words “cognitive dissonance” you asked of me. Perhaps you do not know what that means. It means self-contradictory mental thinking or conscious mental process which is uncomfortable of explanation or reconciliation of truth and falsehood. You are obviously too embarrassed of my line of probing, so you hypocritically quote someone comments to shield yourself of the need to explain. How shameful, Mr. Foarp?
Incidentally, the Tony Blair and Carole Caplin connection came from a recent very respectable foreign news publishing and has the following tantalizing pieces…..” Tony Blair “went bright red” when confronted about long massages he was receiving…….. Lord Levy, the Labour Party’s chief fundraiser, said he was forced to confront Tony Blair about the massages…. The main worry was Tony specifically, gossip within Number 10 concerning visits Carole was making to [Mr Blair's country home] Chequers…..”
Interesting that you should proposed that I am … rather than being a patriot, you are a nationalist only. For a native speaker of English, I grade you failed minus because you obviously have not heard of the word called “loyalist” which in the Cambridge dictionary says… a person or group that strongly supports the government or ruler in power.
I am not a national of China, so I cannot be a nationalist. I have also told you that I am not a patriot of Anti-CNN but a patriot of what this organization stood for.
And finally, you asked me “what have I done for China”. Well, I am a loyalist ever ready to defend their uncompromising reputation and impeccable integrity of nationhood, unfairly tarnished by hypocritical zealots like yourself, Creepy News Network and Big Bullshit Corporation. Do you object to my loyalty to truth in the face of your collective shameless falsehoods, Mr. Foarp?
@Jason - Lee obviously believes this to be true, at least this is my understanding of what he said here:
What is your view on this?
“Let me ask you a question we 1.3billion Chinese people Dalai lied to you and Western Media liedk, why you didn’t believe.”
As I have written elsewhere, I do not automatically believe everything I hear, and since there is little in the way of information from independent sources coming out of Tibet I can only balance what they say against what the Chinese government says. The Tibetans are happy to meet with foreign journalists, are willing to discuss matters openly, and operate mainly from India, a country with relatively free press - all of this means that I am more likely to believe them as they do not seem to have much to hide. The facts that they mention (heavy military crack-down, cultural repression, religious repression, torture etc.) agree with the little information coming from other sources unconnected to either party that comes out of Tibet. I do not lend any credence whatsoever to figures like 1.2 million dead, but the figure of 90,000 plus refugees resident in India alone is a UNHCR figure which I trust - even China does not dispute this figure.
Compare this to the Chinese government - constantly using insults like ‘wolf in monk’s robes’, describing the idea of Tibetan independence as a ‘不可告人的目的’, using 1984-style newspeak like ‘motherland-unity’, ’splittists’ and ‘Dalai clique’. This language is not that of people who are willing to enter into a debate. Add to this the fact that they are unwilling to answer questions from journalists, stir up hatred against western journalists operating in China, and - worst of all from the view of Chinese credibility - do not allow journalists into Tibet to freely collect the facts themselves. When asked why they do not allow journalists to enter Tibet the government tells foreign journalists (but not local media) that they won’t allow them (many of whom have reported from Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq and other war zones) that it is for their own safety. Simply put, the Chinese government hands out it’s own version of what is happening in Tibet and then prevents foreign journalists from confirming whether it is true or not.
As for the idea that 1.3 billion people had spoken to me, this is simply laughable. I might as well say that we in the outside world (that’s 4.7 billion people by the way) spoke to you and you didn’t listen - but this would be totally ridiculous as I cannot and will not claim to speak for 4.7 billion human beings. Nor can the media in the outside world. Nor can the media in China. Nor can anti-CNN.com
By the way, your quote comes from Josef Goebbels, the man who gave the infamous ‘Total War’ speech in the Berlin Sportspalast. I advise you to read the speech, it is a definite education in the way that communists, fascists and other totalitarians try to twist words to their service, to heap blame on scape-goats, and to whip people who have no other source of information into a brainwashed nationalistic frenzy.
@Bob,
You are welcome. I think that will be better if we can communicate more and friendly. I’m glad that you have seen this notes there. Actually I think my English skill is not good enough to express. I wish I could be “Lee” or you who are fluently. I’m open and wish all of us are open with low sensitive. In this way, we can break the iceberge.
That’s the purpose.
@Lee - The Freedom of Information Act 2000 is an act establishing a process whereby secret documents can be released to the public before the 30-year limit. Are you saying that China has such a law? Have the files related to, say, the death of Lin Biao (林彪) or the entry of China into the Korean war been released yet? No? But all of the files related to the death of Princess Diana, the sinking of the Belgrano, Churchills cabinet minutes and a raft of other pieces of information have been released under this act after it having been judged to be in the public interest to do so. Is some information still kept secret? Yes - but this does not make Britain a secretive society, as this information will still be made public under the 30-year rule.
You may also note that the act was passed by an openly elected House of Commons, following a debate on both sides - for and against - over several years that was carried out in all of the newspapers (although it was then examined by an unelected House of Lords, but reform is coming). Does the Chinese government allow secret documents to be released in this fashion? Does the Chinese government even allow laws to be passed following such a process?
“YOU LIED TO THIS FORUM ABOUT DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACCESS in the so-called “Great” Britain to claim superiority of your culture over China.”
Asides from the little known fact that the ‘Great’ in ‘Great Britain’ carries the same meaning as the ‘Gran’ in ‘Gran Cayman’ (Britany is the small Britain - don’t blame us for this, it was the ancient Greeks who named our country!). I object to what you say here, I cannot see in which way I have lied - and I would like you to explain how exactly an act that was passed in 2000 to allow greater access to secret documents is proof that Britain is a secretive country. As for claiming cultural superiority - I did no such thing. I have lived in China and believe the culture there to be better than that of Britain in many respects. It is the government’s policy that I object to - policies whereby protecting the self-image of China is somehow more important than facing the reality.
As for the distinction between patriotism and nationalism - read George Orwell’s ‘Notes On Nationalism’ . Under Orwell’s definition a nationalist does not have to be a patriot, or even a national of the country or creed to which he (or less often, she) dedicates him or herself. He merely needs to mindlessly subsume himself in a larger body. In fact, in many ways, true patriotism is the best antidote to nationalism there is.
Like Hu Shi (胡适) said:
But then I suppose you would also give Orwell and Hu Shi ‘failed minus’ grades!
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