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Anti-CNN Website Moderator and Viewers Attack Me
Written by Robert Vance on April 23, 2008 – 9:40 amSometime during the early afternoon today, a viewer on the Anti-CNN website placed the entire text of my recent post Who is Behind the Anti-CNN Website? in a forum post. Surprisingly, they also posted a link to my website and ever since then, I have been receiving nasty comments via this website. I have allowed most of them to appear on the post because I think that they are quite telling. Later in the afternoon, the original forum topic on Anti-CNN was closed by the moderator who suggested that I was ignorant but that it was better to focus on the actual media reports. You can see this forum topic by clicking here.
This evening however, the topic of my blog post was revived by a member who posted a translation of it in Chinese. Three pages of insults directed at me in Chinese follow his initial thread. While the moderator was uncomfortable with allowing the discussion about my article to proceed in English, the forum topic in Chinese has thus far not been closed. Since early this afternoon, I have also received a number of nasty comments via my website. I have allowed some of these comments to show up on my blog because I think that they are indicative of the general feeling in China.
I am not complaining. I never would have dreamed that my post would attract so much attention. My site has been inundated with hits from around the world thanks to the person who posted the article. While I do not necessarily appreciate some of the personal attacks being leveled at me, I am just happy that my article is being read.
However, I am sad to observe how my words and phrases are twisted to make it seem that I am demeaning the Chinese people. I wrote in the article that it surprised me how perfect the English appeared on the Anti-CNN website. Compared to other ‘English’ Chinese sites, the grammar and spelling were surprisingly excellent. I simply asked if perhaps there were more participants in the creation of the website than just a “few students in Beijing.” For writing this, I was accused of suggesting that Chinese people cannot speak English well and that I think that they are stupid. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth. There are many Chinese people who I have encountered who speak excellent English. I was simply making a comparison between their website and other websites within the PRC.
Mainly however, the naysayers are labeling me as “brainwashed”, “ignorant”, and “arrogant.” My feelings are not hurt. I suppose that we are all brainwashed to a certain extent by our respective governments and media outlets. I have also used the term “brainwashed” to describe the Chinese people’s addiction to their government media outlets. I suppose that “ignorant” and “arrogant” often go hand-in-hand and while I would to think that I am “informed” and “humble” I accept the criticism with an open mind.
I knew that my opinion would not be popular in China when I wrote the article. I am glad that the Chinese people feel so free to express their disagreement with my point of view. I just wish that it could be done with more civility. While I used strong words in my article, at no time did I direct any insults at the Chinese People. I have great respect for the history and the culture of this ancient land and I love its people. I just hope that someday the hysteria which has appeared in these days leading up the Olympics can be replaced with an open and helpful dialogue.
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Perhaps because all china related blogs are showing are on RSS aggregators and that is how all the postings are scrutinized. I think this episode shows that foreign medias and blogs are indeed accessed from the mainland China and have been for very long time. It is therefore, silly to assume that Chinese are existing in some little bubble unaware of what’s been said about them.
Robert , you said : I wrote in the article that it surprised me how perfect the English appeared on the Anti-CNN website. Compared to other ‘English’ Chinese sites, the grammar and spelling were surprisingly excellent. I simply asked if perhaps there were more participants in the creation of the website than just a “few students in Beijing.”
My answer: The anti- cnn site was created by Mr. Raojin, a newly graduate from Tsing Hua University who is running his own IT business. The site has attracted a great number of Chinese from around the world , some of them become volunteers to work for it. The site itself has ad. in it calling for volunteers, haven’t you noticed it? What do you want to verify by your enquiry on “ few students in Beijing”. Is this what you quoted from others ? Show us the original one, complete one. From my point of view, your enquiry implied your doubt of “ it has got government participation “ , right ?
At the same time , it shows no logic with your comparison against your enquiry , “ the grammar and spelling were surprising excellent,”, “perhaps there were more participants in the creation of the website just a “ few students in Beijing” “. Creating of the website is IT job , and doesn’t necessarily show grammar and spelling in excellent level, but the comments in the website columns do ! What’s the point to link messages creators with the enquiry “( creation of the website by) few students in Beijing “ ?. It doesn’t make sense at all !
Finally, if someone always comes up with doubts on Chinese individual people’s free expression, which is against the fixed image , in his or her mind, of Chinese being “brainwashed “ or “government controlled mind “. I am afraid the washed brain is not in our Chinese head, but the head that still keeps moldy concept !
Nice to tell you, the condition of your brain is being little by little turned for the better, please continue to cure.
Falen, thanks for your comments. Actually, as I wrote in my post, the entire text of the post that I made was placed on the Anti-CNN website by a forum member which is why it received so much attention.The’controversial’ post was actually written three days ago and had received very little attention until it appeared on the Anti-CNN Website. Thus, while I do think that more and more Chinese people are beginning to look for other sources of information, I do not think that this particular ‘episode’ shows that people in China are regulary accessing foreign blogs and media.
Li, I also appreciate your comments because they are informative. I have never implied that the Chinese government was involved in creating the Anti-CNN Website. At the time that I wrote the post (which was actually three days ago), my understanding was that the site had been created by “students” in Beijing. I was simply pointing out that in comparison to other sites that I have viewed in China, the English was excellent and I wondered if perhaps there was also some outside collaboration. I never intended to insult the Chinese people for whom I have great respect and admiration. I hope that you can understand that I was simply making an observation and did not reach any definitive conclusion.
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“Robert Vance is a China based freelance writer and teacher who has traveled extensively throughout Asia and Latin America. He spent more than a decade as a radio broadcaster in the United States before moving to Asia to focus on writing about Chinese Culture.”
Robert:
It seems that you are living in China. But it sounds like you didn’t understand China yet. Here is my suggestion to you.
Evidence is the only way to be convinced. You think the photo in anti-cnn or Chinese government is forged, you could try to find the evidence to prove it’s forged.
On the other hand, you could present what Dalai or western media told and talked with us and students. I’m sure we could find evidence to prove that’s wrong.
Does that make sense?
I could put the first question to you:
What kind of system was it running before 1959?
Our answer is: Serfdom system, 95% are slavery
Dalai’s answer to you: peaceful loosely Theocracy
So now please find the evidence for you to support Dalai’s and we have ample evidence on the websit, if you think it’s forge, please point it out and we may try to explain or find more evidence to support.
Do you think it’s reasonable?
“What kind of system was it running before 1959?
Our answer is: Serfdom system, 95% are slavery
Dalai’s answer to you: peaceful loosely Theocracy”
Why should I mention this? Because it’s very important concerning about credibilty. And it’s the good place as break point and easily to be proved out.
Once you found that Dalai lied on this issue, then why not on the other issue. And on the other hand, you could see that Chinese did tell truth to some extent. The credibility is very important, isn’t is?
Jason,
Thank you for your comments. You should read my post again. I never suggested that the photos on Anti-CNN.com were forged. I simply remarked that to my ‘untrained eye’ the information on the website suggests that there were some mistakes made by the TV networks; I don’t believe that they were intentional. I am not a fan of CNN; I never have been. CNN says a lot of things about a lot of people but as a person who has worked in the media for decade I know that in the course of a day, thousands of words and pictures are aired and there will be mistakes. That is the nature of television broadcasting.
I think you have a right to be angry but where is your evidence that CNN or the other networks in question intentionally tried to deceive their viewers?
Robert,
Actually you misunderstand me. You mentioned that most of Chineses were brainwashed by Chinese government although later you tried to correct it. But you still thought that China government didn’t tell the truth which mean there is no credibility. That’s why I posted above to see whether China government was telling the truth. I think this is very important.
I didn’t say you told us any forged pictures. But please try to find the truth of above the case. Finally you would find Dalai tried to hide something too.
CNN really tried to the bias reports is obviously. In SF, there were 50,000 Chinese supporting Olympia, CNN didn’t see it. But they just saw Tibetan anti-china protestors. The pictures they used are trying to mislead the users, the intention was also obviously.
Even you think Jack Cafferty’s comments were directed at the Chinese government, the comments are still wrong. First current Chinese government leaders are quite open and doing things pratically. Secondly he has no right to vilify the foreign country by using such kind of words. This kind of activity should be balmed by all of the world who loves peace. If you supported him to vilify China, I think you are wrong too as a civilied human being.
From this incident, we found most media tried to deceive the viewers to blame Chinese government. We don’t know what kind of issues behind the scene, but from our observation, we could see that. And CNN is the most stubborn media to do that. The main theme is to try to tell the world that Olympia torch relay are protested everywhere which shows that the chinese government is unable and unqualified to hold the game.
Hi again Jason,
You may be right about CNN not reporting the “50,000 Chinese Protesters” in San Francisco during the torch run. I wasn’t watching CNN at the time of the protests. However, I do know that other news organizations in the U.S. did cover the story and I remember reading that there were a large number of protestors on the street who were supporting China. So whether or not CNN covered that aspect of the story as well as they should have does not really matter. You should also realize that CNN is not where most Americans get their news every day. There are other more popular networks than CNN and more and more Americans are turning to the internet to get their news. That is why I still do not understand why Chinese people are so offended by what CNN said. CNN really has little significance these days in my opinion.
You say that Jack Cafferty “has no right to vilify the foreign country by using such kind of words.” Actually, he does have the right to do that in America. Freedom of speech is an important part of the American Bill of Rights. While I may or may not support what Cafferty said about the Chinese government, I do support his right to say it. I also support your right as Chinese citizens to complain about it.
Hi Bob,
Do you really agree he has right to curse?
Let’s put it in your shoes. While you may or may not support what I said about you, you do support my right to say “you are thugs and you are son of bitch to support Jack”. What’s your feeling about your support of my right of freedom of speech. Do you still support my right?
Dare Jack really to say “Black american are negro, they should turn back to be slavery”. Does he really have such kind of right?
You support his right because he cursed the Chinese people which has nothing to do with and you could enjoy his curse whatever you may support or not. If the cursed object is pointed to you, the story will be turned to be difference.
I have no intention to offend. But I want to let you know the feeling and let you know the feeling of Chinese.
Hi Bob,
When we talked about Anti-CNN, it doesn’t mean only “CNN”. We mean all of western media. I just take an example for “CNN”. The same thing was happened in Paris, London and other cities. None of mainstream media broadcasted the oversea Chinese people’s feeling and their support in the TV and newspaper and websites. I have checked lots of websites like CNN, VOA, BBC, Spiegel, Deutsche Welle. The main theme is Tibetan protest. Mainstream media are regarded to cover most of populations, Fox, ABC are used the same way. In Germany,Australia,Canada and France,same. There are so many oversea Chinese who reported such kind of bias reports everywhere in Western countries. Do you think all of oversea Chinese have no independent think to judge what the bias reports mean. Remeber all oversea Chineses are enjoying the freedom of Western countries.
Yeah, that’s right Jason, all western media is operating as part of a conspiracy against China. Despite the fact that they rarely agree on anything else and do not, unlike Chinese media, have to submit everything they write to censorship by central government.
You people really are 爱国贼. If you really loved China as much as you claim you wouldn’t be embarassing your country by engaging in these childish disputes about whether a photo of a military ambulance with a caption which reads ‘there is heavy military prescence in Lhasa’ shows bias or not. Your so-called ‘patriotism’ is little more than the kind of thrill of engaging in group-think 1984-style ‘hate hours’ against those you feel have slighted your country - it does nothing to improve the situation of China even a little bit. If all the effort which has been expended on this had been expended on, say, tracking down corrupt officials, and reporting illegal businesses - things which have done much more harm to China than any Tibetan protester ever could - then China would have been a better place for it. How many of people who howl so loudly for retribution against supposed ‘traitors’ like Grace Wang have done anything positive for China? Have you Jason? Or Li? Or Falen?
Stop playing at trying to re-enact something you saw on television and do what real patriots do - serve your country by trying to improve it!
Hi Foarp,
Hard to understand your terms like “1984-style ‘hate hours’” , “爱国贼”. Would you please explain?
You mentioned that China has censorship, China has other problems. We agreeed. None of Chinese would not accepte these facts. But we are on the way of making progress. I have seen these improvement within these years. But you will not expect all of those problems able to be solved within days.
I don’t think Grace Wang should be condemned so fiercely. I thought her behavior to some extent was not correct at the point of view as a Chinese. But she has the right to express her view. The react to her is unneccessary. Whether does she have other purpose is not known by me, I will not say some words like “traitor” something. That’s unfair to her.That’s my view toward this issue. But since the population in China is so large that different voices are abundant, irrational patrioism does exist to some levels. But it’s not uncommon. In US, we could see the same irrational patrioism before Iraq War. If someone has different opinion against war, they are labeled as traitor too. And the french fries were renamed as Patrioat Fries. Do you think it’s childish too? I think, this kind of behavior is from human nature. So I don’t think you should blame Chinese simply about the irrational patrioism. Most of Chinese are still rational patrioism like other countries.
Bias reports we have seen is not just 1 picture’s mistaken. There are lots of and also lots of media were involved. Please take a look carefully on the anti-cnn webpage.
Actually Chinese are normally very quite about politic issues. Most of them are busy on their own business and less concern about the politic issues. Did you see any oversea Chineses protested before? But this time things are really changed. There were 50,000 chinese people on the street of San Francisco to protect the torch relay. There were 10,000 protestors in France. 20,000 protestors in Australia. 3,000 in Berlin. Don’t you think those figures show something to you?
I tell you the truth, in 911, Iraq War, the oversea Chineses people have differnt opinions and debated heavily on those issues. Most of oversea Chinese complaint about the Chinese government. But now all of them, raged by bias reports and violent protest happened in Paris and London, are united together, including from Taiwan and Hongkong, to walk on the street to do the demontration. That would be recorded into the history. It’s the event that really changed the history.
We did really want to focus on solving our internal problems if there is no bias reports happpening in western sociaty. We didn’t want to go to street to protest. It’s because it’s unbearable any more that we have to have our voice out to let western people knowing that the media didn’t tell the truth.
So I appreciate your suggestion. But I wish that the media will have more positive reports toward China so that we can concentrate on our own issues.
Thanks!
Best Regards,
Jaso
@Jason - The novel 1984 featured a scene in which the population were driven into paroxisms of hatred against those considered enemies of the state for an hour every day as a way of controlling them - compare this to the current situation if you will.
As for ‘爱国贼’,, this is a play on the words ‘卖国贼’, and is usually translated as ‘patriotic traitor’ - one of the criticism levelled in this book at the totally over-the-top way in which some people react to what they perceive as an insult - thinking specifically of anti-CNN’s reaction and the way in which photos with potentially misleading captions and the ill-advised comments of one commentator have been warped into an all-out assault on China.
I agree with Song Qiang (宋强) the writer of China Can Say No (中国可以说不) when he says:
The opinions on anti-CNN do not represent real life either - they represent the opinions of a few conspiracy theorists who can ’shine’ on the internet, but who in real life are powerless to do anything real for their country. The fact that Chinese state media has carried the reports on it has given some of the people on there big heads, but it doesn’t represent anything.
I live on the route that the torch relay took through London. When I saw a crowd of armband-wearing flag-waving protesters coming running down my street shouting their slogans - do you think my response was positive? Do you think the response of any westerner is positive? They looked just like the anti-Japanese rioters I saw in Nanjing in 2005 - the same level of fanaticism and group-think.
You could do much more for your country if you worked to improve it - do not pretend that answering what you perceive as bias in the western media is more important. I saw many things in the Chinese press I knew to be wrong - knew to be wrong because I had seen the opposite with my own eyes. When I worked as a teacher in a university to pay for my student fees I taught a class on UK culture, the text book we had been given for the class contained a section where it said that bestiality (i.e., sex with animals) and homosexuality were common in the west, that old people eat pet food because their children do not look after them, and that all of this is due to capitalism. All the same, I do not care what the Chinese media or Chinese text books have to say about my country, much more important to me is improving my own country - but I have learned a lesson about what the Chinese government’s true attitude towards the west is - and it is not friendly.
Jason,
You wrote in your last post that “I wish that the media will have more positive reports toward China so that we can concentrate on our own issues.” What postiive stories do you want the Western media to cover? Have you ever done a Google search for stories from the West about China? You should try it sometime. There are positive stories coming from the West everyday about your country and about your culture. Actually, what you really want are some more positive stories about your government, right? You want the Western media to say nice things about the Communist Party and its leadership in China. Actually, if you read stories from the Western media (this time I am specifically talking about CNN and the BBC) you will find that these media outlets rarely have anything positive to say about any government. Such is the nature of a media that is not gagged by their government. They are always going to criticize the administration that is in power. Your government it taking everything so personally. It is time for your government to stop worrying so much about what CNN is saying. As I wrote previously, CNN is really not so significant in the scope of things. They are not even the dominant cable news channel in America anymore.
Anyway, I do appreciate your comments and your atttempt at reasonable diaologue.
“the text book we had been given for the class contained a section where it said that bestiality (i.e., sex with animals) and homosexuality were common in the west, that old people eat pet food because their children do not look after them, and that all of this is due to capitalism. All the same, I do not care what the Chinese media or Chinese text books have to say about my country, much more important to me is improving my own country - but I have learned a lesson about what the Chinese government’s true attitude towards the west is - and it is not friendly.”
@Foarp
Hi Foarp,
I don’t know what kind of text book you used and when it is composed. I think either some kind of misunderstanding was there or the book is the very old one. Our government has stopped to blame other countries since mid of 1980s although some politic books are still composed as old style. From media, US and UK weren’t called as Empire Ameriaca and Empire Britian. More positive introuduction about those 2 countries were gradually increased on the media. Since then, I didn’t see any hostile articles about Western countries.
So you got conclusion from one of textbook is not proper I think.
Believe or not, you said that Anti-CNN is only a few conspiracy persons, I could say you are totally wrong. The method of 2005 was not supported by all of the Chinese people. The boycott towards Carrefour are still underdebate, there is no unanimous agreement. But the anti-cnn was supported by everyone in China and the protest happened in oversea were supported by everyone in China. I tell you the facts.
After this issue, Chinese will not care about western media like previous which we thought what they reported are the truth. Now we learned it was also hidden somethings like those of Chinese government did and even they would forge something. Therefore western medias lost our trust, we will not take care of them in the future and focus on our own issues.
And I would like to tell you I’ve found current Chinese government is very practical and reasonable. They face more problems and but they are trying their best to deal with. I like this kind of practical government. I wish more progress will be made in the near future. I’m confident of them. If you are still using the old method to look at the Chinese government, I suggest that you may adjust your attitude to some extent.
Question to you: Does Democracy always make right decision? Both British and US voted for Iraq war which proved to be totally wrong. We Chineses and most of the rest world have already known that was wrong before the war.
Why was violent Bush able to selected as president as 2 times?
Hi Bob,
To blame government is ok, but it should be based on the truth. The most of the attack against our government toward Tibetan were totally wrong. That’s the real point. That’s why Chineses were so angry about it. It’s not because the media could not accuse the government.
Like culture genocide; masscre 1million Tibetan people; no religion freedom etc.
Those who have been to Tibet told the different stories.
And the so called “crackdown” we didn’t see any evidence.
Why does this happen? Because the media gives 100% of trust to Dalai and 0% trust to China government. But in fact, we Chinese obviously know Dalai has lied to the world a lot. He said that he ruled a “peaceful theocracy” and we knew it’s “theocracy”. And he said other lies which don’t want to enumerate here. Chinese government tried to voice out but seems no one from Western believed it.
Again believe or not, with more open of Chinese government, you will see the truth finally.
Please take a look of this Westerner who has been to Ganzi ,close to Tibet.
http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1058-1-1.html
Hi Bob,
To blame government is ok, but it should be based on the truth. The most of the attack against our government toward Tibetan were totally wrong. That’s the real point. That’s why Chineses were so angry about it. It’s not because the media could not accuse the government.
The accusation like culture genocide; masscre 1million Tibetan people; no religion freedom etc are not true at all.And the so called “crackdown” we didn’t see any evidence.
Why does this happen? Because the media gives 100% of trust to Dalai and 0% trust to Chinese government. But in fact, we Chinese obviously know Dalai has lied to the world a lot. He said that he ruled a “peaceful theocracy” and we knew it’s a cruel“serfdom system”. And he said other lies which don’t want to enumerate here. Chinese government tried to voice out but seems no one from Western believed it.
Again believe or not, with more openess of Chinese government, you will see the truth finally.
Those who have been to Tibet told the different stories.Please take a look of this Westerner who has been to Ganzi ,close to Tibet.
http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1058-1-1.html
@Jason - The Japanese text book which sparked the riots in 2005 was also only one text book. These books may have been written in the eighties but they are still in print and still being bought by universities. Imagine if all universities here in the UK had government-approved textbooks which said these kind of things about China - anti-CNN would be calling for the head of our prime-minister as quick as a flash! And I might ask, if the government can change from being unfriendly to being friendly so quickly, can it not equally quickly change back?
As for negativity about the west, this is very prevelant on Chinese television. I’m sure you have seen the television series about the people who emigrate to America, it was made in the nineties but still plays on Chinese television, the whole thing is a total mis-representation of life in the west - it even shows them saying that all Americans have to serve in the army, something which hasn’t been true since the seventies. Likewise historical dramas always portray westerners as insulting or attacking Chinese - and the westerners are always played by Russians who can barely speak English. I remember one show about the Boxer Rebellion showed a ‘German’ general standing up and making a speech (in Russian-accented English - how ridiculous!) about how they wanted to colonise China but couldn’t because (paraphrasing from memory) “We have measured them and they are just as strong as we are!”. What total balderdash and nonsense, a clear attempt to distort and re-write history of a kind even worse than what Disney does. I am not trying to defend what was done in the past, but when Chinese screen-writers put false words in the mouths of ‘western’ characters they are doing their country and its relations with other countries a dis-service. It is fortunate that so few westerners can understand Chinese, otherwise more people would take offence.
As for the Dalai Lama - can’t you see how it is the Chinese government itself that gives him credibility? The more they denonouce him and call him ‘a wolf in monk’s robes’ and other such comically brain-dead phrases, the more people in the west are likely to support him. To westerners, Tibetan independence is not a ‘不可告人的目的’ but something which has existed in the past (as you yourself recognise when you say that the Dalai was responsible for his mis-governance of the past) and something which might exist in the future.
Given that you are an English teacher–and not a professor or expert on China–you are easy to attack.