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Is China Ready for Barack Obama?
Written by Robert Vance on June 17, 2008 – 11:23 am“I don’t have a problem with black people,” a Chinese student recently stated in one of my classes. “It’s just that I don’t understand their language or their culture very well.” We were talking about the U.S. Democratic nominee Barack Obama who could become America’s first African American president in September if he can defeat the Republican nominee John McCain. Many of my students have followed the U.S. primaries, taking special interest in the recent battle between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. But now that Mr. Obama has finally clinched the nomination, some of my students have been candidly sharing their opinions about African Americans and blacks in general.
Most Chinese people with whom I speak on the issue of race say that they ”have nothing against black people.” But many of my friends and students do seem to ’buy in’ to some of the stereotypes of black people that have always existed. For example, a student recently told me that she “is a little scared of black people” because they are big and strong. Others have said that their black English teachers teachers were always kind but they often smelled bad. Still other students have said they have never really met a black person so they have no opinion of them. A few have even asked me about whether or not there are more black people involved in crime in the U.S. than white people. Some of the ideas behind this stereotype may stem from a recent shooting in my city in which a South African man was murdered because he owed the local ‘mafia’ money. Mostly though, my students tell me that they view ‘black culture’ as strange and a little mysterious.
As a teacher, I always try to help my Chinese students to understand that such stereotypes are unfair and can be perceived as racist. I explain to my students that there are many African Americans who have achieved great success in the United States. I talk to them about people such as Condoleezza Rice,:Michael Jackson, and actors such as Denzel Washington. But yet, when we talk about Barak Obama, some of my students seem to display incredulity at the possibility that the United States could very soon be presided over by a black man. It is not that they are against the idea; it is simply difficult for them to imagine such a scenario.
Why is it so difficult for them to conceive of a black man in charge of America? The answer is quite simple. When Chinese people think of America, they think of the color white. Chinese women use umbrellas in the sun to keep their pale skin while both Chinese men and women try to change their hair color to blond or at least something lighter. Chinese people know all about Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Britney Spears, and the Backstreet Boys but not so much about Bill Cosby, Martin Luther King, and Oprah Winfrey. The fact that someone other than a white man could be sitting in the Oval Office come January seems to come as a surprise to many here.
The belief that racism is still very prevalent in China is another reason why some Chinese people have been ‘caught off guard’ by Obama’s success in the U.S. A young Chinese lady who was engaged to a foreigner told me recently that her parents were worried about her future in America because they had heard that “Chinese people’ and other minorities were treated as “third class citizens.” Whether or not such beliefs are true, many Chinese people are amazed that a minority person would ever have a chance at achieving the world’s most powerful position.
Some in China are willing to say of Obama words that few Americans would dare to utter in public. On Monday, an editorial in the the People’s Daily Online in China proclaimed that “one of the causes for the Western media to lavish overpraises onto Obama is owed to his (skin) color, and the other cause is the change that he may bring to American society.” This online newspaper, which speaks for the government, seems also to speak for the Chinese people. After all, the presidential election in the U.S. is a hot topic in China these days amongst the old and new generations. But it is not about Republicans versus Democrats. In fact, few Chinese people I talk to have any idea that there is even a man named John McCain who is also running for office. The discussion here is all about Barack Obama, the man who will be the first black president of the United States.
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Can you please explain how it is a “stereotype” that blacks are proportionally involved in more crime, especially violent crimes, than any other race? How is this belief a “stereotype” if it is supported by empirical statistics collected by local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies? (Not to mention innumerable private and for profit social agencies.) How is a “stereotype” if it is factually correct under any standard of evidence? No doubt, I’m sure you consider me a “racist” for even posing the question. Yet, it is by no means a fictitious belief that blacks commit more crimes, especially violent, in relation to their numbers in the general population. (Additionally, you might note that this trend holds true even for so called “white collar” crimes such as embezzlement, etc.) The fact is, you do a grave disservice to law enforcement in general and the crime victims in particular when you repeat the fallacious slander that to simply state the truth, blacks commit crimes far out of sequence to their numbers in society, is somehow “racist.” It is not. It is factual, it is evidentiary, and it is no more a subjective belief than that the earth revolves around the sun. Numerical statistics are not a “stereotype.” They are objective fact. As much as we may debate the reasons or causes, the fact of wildly disproportionate black crime is simply TRUE.
it was Clinton’s advisor first insinuated Obama’s skin color gives him extral advantages, not chinese newspaper. as a chinese I m not supprised at all he will win this election, he will probably sweep Mccain, it’s like prom queen v janitor in a popularity contest … but I wouldnt call him african-america though, Jessi is african-american, Al sharpton is african-america, Obama is white as a lily white bitch.
personally I dont think he would make a good president, at this point america needs a manager, not a prophet. if you talk about vision and persona I like Ron Pual way better, that’s a person who can command real changes, not just words, for better or worse…
[...] talking more about how people in China view the Democratic presidential candidate. Here are some student perspectives, via their foreign teacher. [The Chinese Teaching [...]
“Is China ready for Obama”???
Who cares????
“Why is it so difficult for them to conceive of a black man in charge of America? The answer is quite simple. When Chinese people think of America, they think of the color white”
And when people think of China, they think of Chinese, DUH!!!!
“Whether or not such beliefs are true, many Chinese people are amazed that a minority person would ever have a chance at achieving the world’s most powerful position.”
Yes and what are the odds that a white could be elected to head up China? a black? anybody not Chinese? The answer is a big fat ZERO.
“future in America because they had heard that “Chinese people’ and other minorities were treated as “third class citizens.””
China is one of the most ethnocentric and racist countries on the planet, far more than the US or any other so-called “white” country . They have no business accusing anyone of racism. They, unlike the USA, have no blacks, mexicans or others so NO understanding.
“Why is it so difficult for them to conceive of a black man in charge of America? The answer is quite simple. When Chinese people think of America, they think of the color white.”
Actually, it’s not the Chinese who think this, but other nations around the world as well. Part of that is that there has not yet been one African-American (substitute American with any other country) ever elected as the leader of a Western nation.
You would probably be hard-pressed to find any leader who was racially quite different from an overwhelming ethnic majority of a specific country. I can personally think of one, but it’s not the best of examples (hint: Peru).
Writer: What planet are you from? Why in God’s name would any freedom loving, God-fearing, hard working white person vote for Obama?! He does not represent them in any way, shape or form. You are deluding yourself to think that this piece of human feces will be Prez. Chinese do not like (or take as spouses) blacks because they, unlike many brain-dead whites, can still see and reason, and understand that blacks, in any country in which they are located in any numbers sufficient to form a gang or community, cause nothing but crime and destruction. They are culture destroyers, not culture enhancers……PERIOD. When the Chinese eventually move into Africa, which they will, you will see how kindly they treat the natives (as they roll over them with tanks).
American said,
The fact is, you do a grave disservice to law enforcement in general and the crime victims in particular when you repeat the fallacious slander that to simply state the truth, blacks commit crimes far out of sequence to their numbers in society, is somehow “racist.”
@American,
I think you need to read what I wrote a little closer, my friend. I simply said that I told my students that suggesting that more blacks are involved in crime than whites can be “perceived as racist.” What perhaps I failed to make clear in my article was that was that because my students hear that more blacks in America commit crimes than white, they are naturally a “little afraid” of black people. That, my friend, is a stereotype and borders on racism.
Required said,
it was Clinton’s advisor first insinuated Obama’s skin color gives him extral advantages, not chinese newspaper.
@Required,
Yes, a few people have made similar comments in the U.S. They were practically never heard from again. The point is, the People’s Daily was not quoting Clinton’s adviser. It was stating its own opinion. Who cares who came up with it first? I will not be voting for Obama. I am not a supporter. However, I do believe that there is much more to the man than his skin color. He obviously has great leadership qualities and has the ability to ‘rally’ the nation. Too bad your People’s Daily doesn’t see it that way.
@Demerzel,
You make some good points. I agree that this is not just a Chinese phenomenon. However, since I am currently living in China, I thought it would be interesting to find out what people here think about Mr. Obama. Thanks for your comments
@John,
Thank you for showing us how a true racist thinks.
I still remember my ex-foreign teacher (white, from the USA) told me and other students that more black people are involved in crime than whites.So they don’t have a good fame in the USA. And the most important thing is not many Chinese people know the blacks very well, but we hear a lot from the foreigners, so in fact, the foreigners put the first impression of the blacks to the Chinese. interesting~~now another guy from the USA( probably a white guy) come up and questioning our Chinese people if we are racists ?!( if this guy doesn’t think so, why did he ask if we are really for the black president?) Just think of what the white Americans had done to the black people in history, do they have the prestige to point at others saying racism? I can tell you the truth that we don’t care much about which color will it be. we only care about if the president will be a good president,especially whether he can do well for the relationship between China and the America.
“Is China Ready for Barack Obama?”
China foreign policy is “don’t interfere with other countries’ internal affair and respect to other countries’ own decision”. So China respects to whoever to be the president of US. For China, it is always ready.
Personally I wish the president could make the world more peaceful and stable. Don’t declare another such as “Iraq War”. Bush is the worst president I have ever seen. It doesn’t matter he is black or white, as long as he could do better for the world, he is the good president. If he could, I admire him. If he couldn’t , I despise him like I despise Bush.
We Chineses are glad to see after 40years of Martin Luther King’s movement, the human rights of Black people in US has really been improved a lot as Obama is running for president. That’s victory of all black americans for their human rights movement. And it’s also the victory of all human beings.
@Robert Vance,
Quite so, and I then proceeded to ask on my Chinese written blog (not my English on on China) what they thought. Ironically, the only negative aspect came from my wife… lol.
@Heather,
It reminds me of this riddle: One brother always tells the truth, the other always tells a lie. You have one question, what do you ask?
Conderning the attack on John, once again the writer of this article proves his disconnect between the real world and what he has seen on “Multi-Cult” operated television.
Specifically, since you are so supportive of black governance, I challenge you to defend your claims. Not with “smear words” or lamentations about how unenlightened we all are, but with real world factual evidence. Is Rhodesia (now “Zimbabwe”) better under European rule or Black Rule? The country is literally starving to death, after having killed off the European farmers, inflation is at roughly 1,000,000%, and the once “bread basket of Africa” is now widely recignized as one of the most despotic regimes on the contient. How about South Africa? In only fifteen years a once “First World” nation of scientific achievement, first class infrastructure, and functioning economy has ruptured entirely to become a place riddled with gang violence, unpunished mass killings, and disease. Yes, I can hear you now, “Even death is preferable to living under ‘racism’…” This, of course, ignores that fact that for all of the decades of European rule in South Africa the main problem at the border was with Blacks trying to ENTER the nation. (Notably, Black ownership of cars, homes, and degrees of higher education has far higher under the “racist” European rulars of South Africa than anywhere else in the world. Period.) So, writer, I am waiting on your example. In fact, all the world is waiting on just ONE example of a nation faring better under Black rule than European rule.
Finally, as for being afraid of Blacks due to their exceedingly higher crime rate being a “racist” response, please explain? If you go to a casino that is crooked 40% of the time, are you “racist” against that casino because you don’t want to play there? Of course not. You simply know the odds are way out of favor as compared to a casino in which the odds against you are only 5% or 10%. Self-preservation by means of emperical analysis is not “racist.” Moreover, you continue to baffle me with your steadfast ability to be obtuse regarding the word “sterotype”. That Blacks, on average, commit more violent crimes and that therefore one should be more cautious than when dealing with say, Esquimos who have a very low rate of violent crime, it is simply not a “sterotype”. A “stereotype” is an unfounded belief based on a false assumption. To assume that a member of a clearly defined group who is exceedingly violent MAY cause a greater danger to you, is NOT a “stereotype”. Unless, you simply redefine the word. Incidentally, under the rubric you are apparently using, the entire Insurance Industry in all countries are both “racist” and “stereotypical” because they both use metrics based on such analysis to determine rates.
You are truly despicable. Telling Chinese students, especially Chinese women, that blacks do not commit more crimes on average (as detailed by national, state, and county level police organizations) is tantamount to murder.
You are risking someone’s life.
China is one of the most ethnocentric and racist countries on the planet
Actually China is probably the least racist country on the planet, but they are also very politically incorrect- i.e they say that it’s degeneracy when people commit crimes regardless of their race, not “centuries of oppression”.
@An American,
I do not think that you have ever lived in China nor do you know much about how people here do view black people. I was not as harsh as I could have been when I was describing the attitudes that people here have about blacks. I had a friend recently tell me that “most people in China do not like black people.” Of course the crime rate amongst black people is higher than the crime rate amongst white people in the US. I was not attempting to say that I was disputing that statistical fact with my Chinese students. I think that this particular group of sentences that I wrote in the article were not clear and I apoligize for that. I was simply trying to say that I am trying to help my students understand that not all black people are involved in crime and that in fact there are many who have been very successful. You are right. The stereotype is not found in the statistics. The statistics speak for themselves. However, to assume that all black people (or even most) cannot be trusted based on those statistics is not right.
Since you are ‘crucifying’ me on two sentences that I wrote which could have been clearer, I don’t think you should have any problem with me branding John a racist for writing that “in any country in which they are located in any numbers sufficient to form a gang or community, cause nothing but crime and destruction. They are culture destroyers, not culture enhancers……PERIOD.” Come on now…you agree with that?
@Face Reality,
If I was in fact telling my students that, you are right…I would be despicable. Again, I did not make myself very clear in that particular paragraph. I am only attempting to help my students understand that not all black people are involved in crime in the US and that black people have made great contributions to our country. If you have a problem with that, I am sorry. I am not going to let my students believe that they can never trust or become friends with black people.
Actually every single group of people has a higher crime rates than Japanese and Chinese people. The crime rate of most majority-black cities in America are about 40-50 per 100,000 for murder; while Hong Kong, Tokyo etc are at 0.5-1 every 100,000. In South Africa it’s even worse, with the rate for rape being HUNDREDS of times higher than in China.
This is absolutely intolerable to Confucian society. I’m not even going to touch on all the hate crimes blacks commit against Asians in all countries where they are put together.
This is why I’ve come to doubt “multiculturalism”, because it teaches dangerous lies about the truth behind race.
I’m was afraid this was going to be a popular mindset amongst many Chinese back in the main land. I work with a lot of Chinese ppl in my profession(Graphics Designer) and I get the impression they have had preconceived notions about black people that aren’t the greatest. I’m black myself, but I have gotten some of them to open up about this and it seems things are stacked against someone like me if I ever visit the place. But the more I read stuff like this the more I would not consider visiting the place.
I wont pretend either that the stats are not true, because I can admit they are probably right, but to say a majority of black people are shady or untrustworthy is so wrong.
Face Reality said,
This is absolutely intolerable to Confucian society. I’m not even going to touch on all the hate crimes blacks commit against Asians in all countries where they are put together.
This is why I’ve come to doubt “multiculturalism”, because it teaches dangerous lies about the truth behind race.
@Face Reality,
I agree with you about the dangers of multiculturalism. Like most college graduates, I was subjected to ‘liberal brainwashing’ in my political science and social studies classes. I was told (by white teachers) that I should feel guilty simply because I had been born a caucasian. It was preached to me that whether I knew it or not, I was oppressing blacks and other minorities just because I was white. The same could also go for my sex. Since I was a male, I should feel guilty, because I naturally oppressed women. I was told that if I truly wanted to act in a multicultural way, I needed to admit my guilt and live my life trying to make up for my shortcomings. Fortunately, I did not fall for these liberal sermons because I was brought up to believe that it doesn’t matter what color my skin is; I, as an individual, can make choices about how I treat other people. It doesn’t depend on my skin color.
While “multiculturalism” may be overblown in America these days, I do think that there is a bigger need for it in China. Until recently, there really has not been a lot of diversity in China. Sure, there are 56 different ethnicities here, but many of these people look and act the same as the Han Chinese, especially since the Chinese government has put so much effort into ‘making everything and everyone’ the same in China. Unfortunately, in my experience, those ethnicities that do look or act differently, are often treated differently. Now, there are more people from other countries coming into China to do business and make a home for themselves here; Filipinos, Africans, Russians, Indians, etc. From what I have observed, most of my Chinese friends already have preconceived notions about these people and treat them differently or even badly. Many of my friends tell me that “we have never known anyone from these countries so we don’t really don’t know what to think about them.” In other words, many Chinese people simply do not know how to deal with people from other cultures because they have so little experience. Don’t you think that some ‘multiculturalism’ would be helpful here?
A healthy dose of multiculturalism doesn’t have to involve telling students that they should trust everybody regardless of their skin color. Of course there are devious black people out there just as there are wicked white people. But just as America is ‘multiculturalist’ to an extreme, China seems to be devoid of ‘multiculturalism’ to an extreme. Learning how to treat other cultures and accept differences is important. I don’t claim that this job falls on my shoulder as an English teacher, but I can do a little at least to help my students understand that not all black people are bad!
Canadian said,
But the more I read stuff like this the more I would not consider visiting the place.
@Canadian,
Thanks for your comments. I hope that this article will not deter you from coming if you have the desire. If there is one thing that Chinese people do well, it is to put their best face forward. For example, everyone here claims they “hate Japanese people” but when they actually encounter a Japanese person, Chinese people will often go out of their way to make that person feel welcome. I think deep down inside, many Chinese people are very curious about other cultures. It is for this reason that I never actually accused Chinese people of racism towards black people. I have never heard a Chinese person say that black people were ’stupid’ or anything close to that. As I mentioned in the previous comment, I think that some of the attitudes and stereotypes here are simply a result of people who have not had a very good dose of ‘multiculturalism.’ They need some.
If you came to China, you might just have to do what you already mentioned. That is, getting people to open up about their conceptions of black people. I have a few black friends in this city who are doing quite well here. They seem to be happy and have very few problems although they seem to have a hard time right now finding jobs. Anyway, I wish you luck and I hope you have the chance to visit sometime.
I am a white American man, born, raised and still living in Los Angeles, California. I know both blacks and Asians (esp Chinese) fairly well. Neither group is admirable, or in any way necesary to the success and quality of life of whites (although many of us do like Asian cuisine). Blacks, however, are infinitely worse in every conceivable manner, and no other racial group (except a deranged subset of self-conscious white “anti-racists”) likes them - and even the white “oneworld” types won’t actually live near blacks (which makes their hypocrisy all the more bizarre and execrable). Asians cannot stand blacks (though we are starting to see increasing interracial dating between black males and Oriental females - probably some sexual perversity on the latter’s part; there is far more dating between whites and Asians, however). Of course, not all blacks are criminals, any more than all Arabs are jihadists. But most terrorists today are Muslim, and most violent American criminals are black. These are simply facts.
In the long run, though, I fear the Chinese far more than any Africans. The latter are stupid, destructive and perpetually disorganized (though of course lacking in all ethics, and so stronger in brute racial character than whites - as demonstrated by the recent, predictable bloc voting by blacks for their co-racialist Obama). The former are intelligent, disciplined, clear-headed, and not about to commit national or ethnic suicide, as the white nations of the Earth are doing. China will certainly never let itself be overrun by inferior aliens from the Third World - or anywhere else!
I expect to live until some point in the 2050s, at which time I also expect China to be the globe’s ’sole remaining superpower’, the pathetic US, so magnificent when dominated by strong and proud white men like me, having thoroughly succumbed to the twin killers of immigration invasions and egalitarian race-denial. The only real question will be whether and how the white race itself will still exist in a century - or less.
I have a policy of allowing ALL comments to be posted on this website unless they contain profanity or graphic sexual descriptions. With that said, I am absolutely appalled that this article has attracted so many racists. Unfortunately, it was posted on a couple of racist websites (which shall remain unnamed) which is why we are getting some of these unabashed ‘black’ haters.
I hope that some of you who have criticized me can understand now why it is important to help Chinese students understand that not all black people are criminals or ’stupid.’ Many of them are being taught to think this way by people just like the man who posted just before me. Is this what you really want Chinese people to think before they come to America? Such racism is sickening.
[...] Vs. Barack Obama – An article that I wrote on Tuesday entitled Is China Ready for Barack Obama? has been the focus of much attention in the blogosphere this week. Unfortunately, it has also been [...]
“I do think that there is a bigger need for it in China.”
I wouldn’t say that. Immigration is totally pointless- China has enough people as is and already is very diverse. You might just be in the cities where everyone is “modern” (i.e cultureless, Westernized crap). Elsewhere people tend to adhere to their old cultures.
so magnificent when dominated by strong and proud white men like me,
You obviously weren’t all strong and proud if you needed black slaves to labor for you and then decided to open the floodgates to satisfy the corporatocracy.
To Robert Vance @20:
I made a number of ethnographic and sociological observations in my comment above. Can you actually refute any of them? Of course not - you know it and so do I. Clearly, you are one of those weak, ‘anti-racist’, self-hating whites to which I referred.
Could you explain your anti-racism to me? Why does the making of unflattering, but true, remarks about non-whites bother you? Why are you “appalled”? Shouldn’t you be “appalled” at the truly appalling behavior of blacks, in the US and everwhere else, and not at those whites, like me, resentful of it? Are you a criminal? If not, why make excuses for criminals (or their racial apologists: Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton, etc ad nauseam)? If you are a member of the white race, aren’t you concerned with its preservation, welfare, and future success? Don’t you think it strange not to be? I confess, I might perhaps have been (barely) able to understand white ‘antiracism’ before the “civil rights movement”; after 45 years of nation- and quality of life-killing racial integration, I am utterly bewildered that ANY white is NOT a racist. Do you actually believe that the presence of integrated blacks (and other minorities) improves thelives of whites? How? Better, how could you? It’s just too bizarre!
It seems to me that the West has had its little experiment or fling with the daily joys of nonwhiteness, and that everywhere it has proven an expensive, annoying, and often lethal failure. That any white today worries more about racism in his own racial ranks, than about alien racial aggression and white governmental appeasement of same, is remarkable, even mindboggling. I really wish someone could explain so “foreign” a mindset to me.
Let’s face it, Mr Vance. The average black IQ is 85. That’s 15 points below the average white IQ of 100 and only a dozen or so points away from mental retardation. Blacks also commit more than half of the crime in the US, even though they only comprise about 12-13% of the population. (Whoever said blacks were underachievers?)
I gather that some of the word on the street re: black intelligence comes Chinese involvement in Africa where the average black IQ is about 65-70. Many Africans believe in witchcraft. Note the recent spate of “penis stealers” in the news.
As to your point whether all blacks are criminal or stupid, I agree. Yes, they are not all criminal or stupid. Occasionally, one will come across a black with an IQ of 100 or more. However, it is extremely rare and akin to spotting unicorns.
Imagine if we were to return all American blacks to Africa. Overnight, crime would drop in half and so would illegitimacy and welfare dependency.
One final thought: I’m sure I’m not the only one who noticed the stark difference in human behavior between the New Orleans and Iowa floods. Why wasn’t there any looting and rioting? The answer is black and white.
@ Leon and Hammer of Thor (since you both seemed to ‘chips of the old block’),
I imagine there really is little point in arguing with you two. I am guessing that you both arrived here through one of the highly racist and inflammatory websites that linked to this post. That’s one of the interesting (and sometimes scary) aspects of blogging. You never know who’s going to attack you. Sometimes, it’s a complete surprise.
Yes there is more crime committed by blacks than by whites in the U.S. Yes, there was a difference in human behaviour between the New Orleans and Iowa floods. No one can deny that. But what makes you two so ‘despicable’ is that you truly seem to believe that it is the ’skin color’ that causes these differences. Instead of acknowledging the social factors that play into these differences ( the impact of slavery which is still being felt today, the utter lack of any real ‘black’ leaders in the US to help lead their people out of the mess, opressive and racist attitudes like yours, etc), you want to lead us to believe that because someone has dark skin, they are stupid and useless. These attitudes are sickening and are founded in deep hatred and delusion. Hammer of Thorn, you obviously have no evidence to support your wild claims about IQ amongst black people. That is typical racist ‘propaganda’ that has no evidence to along with it.
Leon Haller, you ask me “why does the making of unflattering, but true, remarks about non-whites bother you?” Because, I, unlike you, actually have black friends! I take these remarks personally. Some of the smartest and most eloquent people that I knew in college were African Americans. Some of the most educated people I know here in China are from African countries! Do you know any Black people? How could you? With attitudes like these your only friends are probably pompous and racist white guys like yourself.
You both are completely blinded by your hatred. And you know what’s scary? You both probably come off as really nice guys. I can tell by the the civilized way in which you write your posts. I know your type. I’ve spent a lot of time in the South. I knew nice guys down there who went to church every Sunday, gave to the poor, and never cheated a person in their lives but they talked about and treated black people like animals. You want to talk about a scary culture. You guys and the rest of your racist white friends make up the most fearsome culture in America. The African American culture has come a long way since slavery ended but you guys never change. You’re part of the problem.
Hammer of Thorn said this,
“Imagine if we were to return all American blacks to Africa.”
Robert Vance says this:
I have a different imagination. Let’s send you and your type out of the country and see what happens. I bet you the results would be alot more desirable.
@Vance
It’s sad to see a nice site get so many racists/purists commenting here, but alas that is the aspect of free speech and it is commendable for you Vance to be standing up to them to show to your students how virulent these people can be and showing some of the downsides rather than blocking them out and stating how the US is perfect.
Btw, to me the US is not an extreme on multi-culturalism, but in fact needs more of this through more diverse populations. That said, the spouting that whites are at fault of everything to me is not a belief of multi-culturalism, but a twisted version corrupted by extreme political correctness. Likely a difference in how we define the term, but just thought to note that.
In response to comment No.1,apparently you are refering to statistics that pertain to criminals who steal the goose off the common.Have you check the statistics on criminals who either steal ,poison,or kill not only the goose but the very common that it inhabits.
Thanks for standing up to these morons Mr. Vance. This venom that they spew is born out of pure hatred.
What these guys don’t understand is that evil is indefinite and there will always be someone or group to hate. If only we got rid of this group… if only we got rid of that group… It will never end… there will ALWAYS be someone to hate.
They actually have some people in America brainwashed and believing this foolishness. Again, good job….
@Rich,
Thank you for your comments. As I remarked earlier, I was a litle stunned by these attacks. I am used to being attacked on this website but I usually know from whence the attacks will come. I agree with you that some of these people literally survive on hatred. Even if there was not one single black person in America, I am sure these kinds of people would single out a group of white people and bash them. Fortunately, I do not believe that these ‘racists’ represent America in the least bit. However, one thing does concern me about these rants. While I am not a supporter of Barack Obama I do fear for his safety now and if he should become elected President. I think some of these guys (and not necessarily anyone on this board specifically) would see it as their duty to make sure that the white race continues its rein in America. It’s a troublesome thought…
Wow you should have your teaching license revoked and banned from ever becoming a teacher again for LYING to your students that blacks don’t commit more crimes, Every study goes against your statement, you must be living in politically correct dream world. You’re also risking somebody’s life.
@Sciath
Congratulations for repeating what someone else already said. You pretty much said the same thing that Face Reality said in comment 12. How about an original thought? Did you even bother to read the comment section where I clarified what I wrote in the post? Probably not. You probably arrived here like others from some racist website that you like to hang out on. And, you’re a little late to the party, my friend. This article was published on June 17th and here it is July 3rd, but since you probably didn’t even read the article, you wouldn’t know that would you?
thanks robert, i never believe d that racism do exist up to this level of insanity, i wish you the best trying to re educate racists.i m black myself, and i m proud to be black, yes i do accept some of the facts stated here.it is as a result of this kind of hatred that push many blacks or other people to be involved in crimes.if from the on set everything was equal, i dont think africans should be involve in criminal acts than other races.the problem is inequality which is a societal problem.
as to the chinese, i live in china, chinese are actually racist , but this come as a result of ignorance, first of all i will call on the chinese government to make an apology on this, the communist often use africa as a model for propaganda, telling chinese that they are better of than those black people and shouldnt complain , it;s just of recent that cctv could show something good about africa,all images from africa or news were only on negative things, as a result chinese think and find africa a mysterious place, secondly chinese think that dark skin stands for poverty because u spend your time working in the field as a farmer so your body becomes dark,how ever some chinese do understand that this is not true.some guys teaching in china also help to promote racism against black people by telling all sort of lies about blacks, the best teachers in china are not whites, africans do far better than white guys, but ignorant and mean as some chinese could be, they tend to believe in white supremacy and making a fool out of them selves. presently many foreigners are having problems with visas, but africans are suffering the most, they cant even renew or extend their visa and the simple reason given is they are terrorist. how did africans become terrorist in the place of bin laden and co.?
On the other hand i do blame my black brothers and friends for not doing the right things,we shouldntkeep on blaming the whites for our woes we should prove to the world that we are africans and we are able like others.we did in china and we can do it everywhere,though later on in china many crimes were committed by blacks there by tarnishing the good image we gave the ignorant chinese hosts.how ever the problem is whites in china do commit heinous act but a chinese will dare not say anything because he or she thinks that a white is supreme,i have a friend a white he fought with some local chinese, and i was trying to stop the fight but what happened at the end was , news went around town that the balck teacher fought with some guys and the police came to ask me about this, .i was very angry until my american friend the white guy stood up to say no ,it ;s unfair to accuse me , that he did it not me but this is the scenario almost everywhere , whites commit crimes blacks are punished… where are we heading to…..?????all race are liable to commit crimes what about other races , yes blacks are criminals, when you will push us to wall , what bin laden is doing is nothing. i do not support killings for what so ever reason, but we create fear and live in fear , why ??????
It is amazing how uninformed you people are about crime statistics. The FACT is that Blacks are CONVICTED of crimes at a greater rate than any other ethic group in the US. That FACT accounts for the reason why Blacks are over-represented in the prison poplulation, which the crime stats being thrown about represent. So these are not actual crime stats, they are CONVICTION stats…
If you consider drug crimes for example…A person caught with Crack will generally be given a harsher sentence than a person caught with powdered cocaine. This may seem irrelevant, but when you consider that crack is derived from cocaine..i.e. SAME DAMN DRUG. Then why are users or people dealing different kinds of the same drug treated differently? I dont know the answer to that but I do know that for the most part, crack is used by poor people..blacks in the US are also over-represented in this group, while cocaine is used by the wealthy, white people are also over-represented in this group. What happens as a result of this is that blacks and other people of color are given harsh sentences (convicted) for possessing 1/10th of the same drug (crack) that a wealthy person will be able to get a great attorney and walk away with community service and a warning not to do it again.
The stats you people mention assumes that the justice system in the US is fair and unbiased so if someone is convicted of a crime they are guilty of the crime. We only need to scratch the surface and stop being lazy and do a little research to find out how many people are being released on a daily basis because a decent attorney working pro-bono looked at the evidence that was used to convict innocent people and is astounded by the fact that this person was convicted in the first place.
Also with certain attitudes toward black people are all over this country, including the police force, prosecuters, teachers , lawyers, doctors, judges, etc….Of particular concern is people in the police force who for the most part only need a high school diploma to join. Now let’s think for a moment of how much you knew about the world, other cultures, other races when you left high school. I knew little. Yet these people are given weapons and a boatload of power and sent on the street to police us.
Seriously people…do a bit of research before posting falsehoods here. If white people in the US were the ones who were marginalized in this country the crime stats being thrown about here would look much different and all of you would be asking “what is hell is wrong with white people and why do they commit so much crime?”.
And for the person who is/was a teacher in China: Do some research before you “inform” people who know little about Black people about Black people. When your students brought up black people commiting so much crime in America, you should’ve used it as an opportunity to explore this misinformation by doing some research with them to see if this was true. ALL of you would’ve learned from it.
@espero,
You said “as to the chinese, i live in china, chinese are actually racist , but this come as a result of ignorance, first of all i will call on the chinese government to make an apology on this, the communist often use africa as a model for propaganda, telling chinese that they are better of than those black people and shouldnt complain , it;s just of recent that cctv could show something good about africa,all images from africa or news were only on negative things, as a result chinese think and find africa a mysterious place, ”
I have to comment on it. For 40 years, I haven’t heard any racist comments from government or TV or Radio or Newspaper about African or Africa american. I have been knowing all the time that Chinese government opponents against racist and support the movement against apartheid and supported the movement of Afica indepence from colonism. I wonder how you could say something like that. That’s not fair. Chinese government has its own problem. But at this issue, its standpoint is very clear. Wish you able to find more materials or information to support your points.
There are some individuals who have the racist thinking. It’s normal like other countries too.
@Espero,
Well said, my friend. I think that your attitude is exactly what black people need (especially in the US) to combat racism. I completely agree with you that racism fuels more crime. But I also appreciate your call to your fellow blacks to stop “blaming the whites for our woes we should prove to the world that we are africans and we are able like others.” Unfortunately, it seems like most of the so called “black leaders” in the US (Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc) are more in the business of blaming everyone else. It seems like the African Americans who have been vocal in calling for black people to stand up and push ahead are ignored. That is a travesty.
I also concur with your comments about black people obtaining visas here. I have heard numerous reports that it is extremely difficult for them. And yes, in my town, there are plenty of black teachers whose knowledge of the English language is much more extensive that their white counterparts.
Thanks for your comments
Teacher said,
And for the person who is/was a teacher in China: Do some research before you “inform” people who know little about Black people about Black people. When your students brought up black people commiting so much crime in America, you should’ve used it as an opportunity to explore this misinformation by doing some research with them to see if this was true. ALL of you would’ve learned from it.
@Teacher,
Thanks for your comments. Please ready the comments that I made to clarify the section of my post which deals with black people and crime. I was simply trying to get through to my students that not all black people are criminals. When they see the statistics from the US they automatically assume that black people can never be trusted. I don’t teach a research class. This conversation came as a result of a few students stating their mistrust of black people because they all commit crimes. I don’t think I did anyone a disservice (except for racists who want everyone to think that all black people are criminals) by helping my students to understand that not all black people are criminals.
I’m actually enjoying this article about your students perceptions of Black Americans. It should also be noted that here in the US, the media in general don’t focus on the positive aspects of African Americans, they have a highly developed bias for covering all of the bad news because it’s more entertaining. I agree with what Teacher said. You should make note to your students that, Even though slavery have been over for 150 years, blacks were never allowed to advance, when we did start being self reliant and sufficient, the US government and it’s deeply rooted process of institutionalized racism always prevented advancement. That brings us to the current state of lower class Black Americans. It was only 40 something years ago that we were granted civil rights. That’s telling. The crime statistics are the way they are because of bias, if you were to take those same statistics and cross compare with white offenders, what would the result be? That an overwhelmingly amount of white offenders of the same crimes as blacks don’t get as nearly harsh punishment? If the media didn’t follow or report every little thing that lower class blacks did then the perception would be greatly different. They do not represent the millions of Black Americans who are positive achievers.
“I also concur with your comments about black people obtaining visas here. I have heard numerous reports that it is extremely difficult for them. ”
@Robert and Espero,
I don’t know if it’s the truth or not. I think in most cases they just too focus on their color and tried to be related the reason why they could not obtain the visa. You are here talking about the racist. So how are you going to deduce from here? Chinese government are favoring racist?
Do you know how difficult for a Chinese to get a visa to US? How many chinese people applying for a Visa are rejected by US? If possible, please you go to learn about that. Applying US visa in China is much more complicated than in other country.
Should I say that it is racist behavior of US?
Wish you are saying things in the fair method.
to jason Ding
Do you know how difficult for a Chinese to get a visa to US? How many chinese people applying for a Visa are rejected by US? If possible, please you go to learn about that. Applying US visa in China is much more complicated than in other country.
Should I say that it is racist behavior of US?
Wish you are saying things in the fair method.
my comment was not just about visa , it was just an example, yeah , it is well known that without a strict control of chinese immigration, china will be empty and chinese will totally infest other countries, you can find it everywhere, chinese are flowing abroad to many countries , we greatly welcome them ,yeah it’s chinas right to decide on visa issues, why i talked about this was because most people are having it hot here these days ,i give u a good example , i was personally told that the chinese government have decided not to allow Africans to work in china and if posible , send them back to africa, and i asked this guy working with the foreign affairs why , and the answer was like africans are terrorist. yeah , i have alot of chinese guys who are nice to africans,but most of them always have this negative feelings and ideas which hurts me alot , i never in my life think or try to make a chinese angry, i love them but the love is not appreciated,.to any one who knows chinese , the never say things openly but they do it, my girl friend told me what chinese often say about foreigners, as i said they are racist not because they like to, but just out of ignorance, but i get mad when a well educated chinese is ignorant
let me make it clear, it ’s very clear these days that africans are no longer needed in china, they have been doing alot to freeze their visas, refusing them work permit, and so on, my friends visa was to expire , he went to the police one month ahead, but the police refused telling him to go back to africa, his colleagues from the same school, germans, they needed just 3months extension of their but they were immediately given 1 year , so this are some examples to prove chinese hatred for blacks.
yeah they help us during apatheid just like any other country going to africa because they want to reap something, africa has no true friends, they are all out to blunder and dump manufactured goods…….more of chinese help is coming up just recently, i appreciate it, but all again as i said is hypocrisy,i think its all upto us africans to take the right path and decisions, we should stop begging and complaining , if the chinese and others did and they are coming out of poverty, we can too , and can do it better than they, be proud of yourself and think the right way. no amount of hatred can deter any body’s progress, only you can deter it…….. brothers stand up ….
Dear Espero,
I think you have misunderstood what I’m saying. It’s not Chinese government control the application US visa, China allow everyone to go abroad as long as he has the visa of destination country. It’s US government which control strictly on visa application toward Chinese people. Most of Chinese may not get the visa finally.
You said Chinea would be empty if no control? Really? But why do so many you guys come into China? Please don’t use the “Superior”. And I tell you Chinese government never worries about this issue. And I told you I have immigrated Canada and then I found that democracy is not the only thing I want to persue and I found the democracy there is not perfect too. I have my culture and living habit and then returned back to China. There are lots of other oversea Chinese with the same feeling as me. It’s free for me to immigrate to other countries and our country also welcome us to be back into China. Please don’t be so ignorant and naive any more.
Tell you other story. When I was in Uni in 1980s, almost all of the foreign students were from Africa, they were total free during study and all cost is from Chinese government. I have 2 classmates who are from Rowanda. Before studying in our university, they spent 1 or 2 years in Beijing Language University to study Chinese. All of these are free. We were told that they were foreign friends and if possible, we need to help them from every consideration.
While we Chinese students conjested in the dormitory with 8 persons, they lived in the Foreign student apartments, 2 of them shared a room same or bigger than our room, each floor a service lady is provided taking care of their lifes. Once they have problem in study, teachers will send the excellent student from us to help them. We did help them a lot and none of classmates had any racist comments. Unfortunately, I heard one of my classmates were killed during the ethnic genocide in Rowanda. This is just an example of my class. But it represents all in the China. From my view, our country treated African friends very well.
Do you know the story of TAZARA railway? Tanzania government asked Western countries for loan to help built it and was refused. All of western countries were not willing to loan it, neither was Soviet Union. China promised it although China itself is very poor. If you didn’t know this or if you forgot about this, it’s too pity. That’s happened in 1970s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAZARA_Railway
“my friends visa was to expire , he went to the police one month ahead, but the police refused telling him to go back to africa, his colleagues from the same school, germans, they needed just 3months extension of their but they were immediately given 1 year , so this are some examples to prove chinese hatred for blacks.”
@Espero,
You said this is hatred example. But did you see the list of countries which US, UK government treated so different from other countries for visa application? Lots of African countries, Muslim countries and China are on that list. It’s very hard for them to get the visa, not saying extension for the visa. Should I say it’s the proof that American hatred people in those countries?
To Jason ding
what you are saying , i understand clearly, and i can give u good examples of chinese generousity to africa, many countries do the same, so it’s not a new phenomenon for countries helping poor africa. we appreciate your help especially from a country like china, i came here personaly for my love of the culture since when i was a kid, it was my dream to come to the country of bruce lee, jacky chan, and others.please dont misunderstand me,i do not hate chinese nor chinese government all political systems has a flaw, we all know politics is a dirty game , so we are not talking here as politicians,i appreciate the chinese government’s efforts towards eradicating poverty in china. and i know some of my african brothers did some bad things against some chinese, same as some chinese did towards them. but my point here is i dont understand why a government official will classify africans as terrorists, secondly i cant understand why do chinese think colour teaches english, jason you sound to be a good guy , what i will say is , you cant know everything about china, you dont know how you look like until u look yourself in the mirror, as a foreigner i can see so many mistakes while you cant.there are many ads about teaching jobs e.g we need teachers from america , canada, england, they must be white skin teachers, …….this is just from a few chinese ,my point here is chinese are ignorant about africans, u must accept this fact it’s true, this is as result of poor teaching at school or a kind of propaganda.
yeah every body likes to go to america, it s difficult to get a visa, but my example is not about getting an entry visa, but people already living in china why should the government or lets say some individuals refuse to extend residence and visa for africans,? because to my knowledge the chinese government welcomes everyone here, and there is no law which states that chinese shouldnt employ africans, but as everyone knows apart from chinese,chinese sometimes say something but do the other way round, it’s typical of chinese to say welcome while the really dont want, anyway i have nothing to do about it, this is the culture, i dont have to change it but i need just an understanding between us, treat us as humans not by our colours,, jason i know u will find it hard to believe i will like u to make a research on this.we all love china but and i have many chinese friends in china and africa, they will sometimes stand against some ignorant chinese to tell them the plain truth about africa,and i think you jason with your knowledge living abroad should try to tell some of your country men that black is human nature , its not poverty nor backwardness….. thanks for your understanding , take this as a learning process not as a battle ……
@ Espero,
I’m familiar with current visa policy. I guess that it’s related to security issue with the olympia game. I think visa extension issue perhaps related to the country not related to the color. If you and a white who are both from US, you failed to extent the visa and the white got it, then it was color discrimination. A decision was made must have been some deep reason which both you and me don’t know. But just to link with color may not be the answer.
To let which foreigner to work in China is really government’s decision. The european people can easily get a job in US, but a Chinese people or African is very difficult to work in US. Just complain China about that is not fair.
I should say “Discrimination”, including color, economic, area, facial, ethnic discrimination, is indeed the ugly nature of the human beings (sort of original sin). Some people talks and treats other without thinking in their mind but using their animal nature. That’s the popular everywhere.
Some people is much shorter than others, they may face more discrimination than those normal height people. But it doesn’t mean all the people may discrimate him and he can not be the excellent. Napolean and Mr. Dengxiaoping is the case.
Black people may face more discrimination than other color people, but most of the time like you say is due to other people’s ignorant and subconcious thinking. In China, that kind of people do exist. But from government level, I don’t think it exists.
Please do know that those black sports stars, esp NBA stars and football stars, are the idol of Chinese youth. They like them very much. What does that mean? Whatever color you are, If you are the exellent, you will be recognized by everyone.
I hate all kinds of discrimination. Everytime when someone talks about issue in discrimination, I correct it immediately.
What an interesting debate. I originally searched the internet to find any information relating to Chinese attitudes towards black people. As a black person who has always had an interest in Chinese culture and always harboured a wish to visit China at some time I was interested to research into Chinese attitudes towards other races especially blacks.
Apart from the mindless ramblings of the racists who’s comments are completely undeserving of a response most of the comments have been very interesting.
I would like to add my small contribution to the debate which I hope will be a positive contribution to the subject matter. It is human nature to be wary of people or cultures that differ from your own. Racism/culture-ism/nationalism is part of the ‘human condition’. All wars and conflicts around the world are caused by one or more of these factors and in all cases there is only one solution to the conflict… education and understanding. I comment the original poster of this blog for trying to educate the pupils that not all blacks are criminals much as I try to convince many of my black friends that not all whites are racist towards non whites. Racism stems from ignorance and education or in some instances lack of education. I mean by my last statement I can guarantee that the bigots who have posted comments on this threat were indoctrinated by a parent/parents or close family members during their formative years which have resulted in their distorted views in adult-hood. On the other hand if Chinese children are allowed to take their perspective of blacks purely from media snippets they get a similar biased impression that they believe to be factual. So once again I comment your efforts in educating your Chinese pupils. Please research and teach them something about black culture, if it is within your remit to do so. Give them some explanation as to why the crime rate is so high amoungst our black communities. The reasons are historical, social and economic not through any lack of intelligence or low IQ due to skin colour as some of our less informed contributors would have you believe.
To the other black contributors… as a people we can do much to help our own case and improve the perception of our race to non blacks. We know that in many ways the deck is stacked against us. The crime figures for blacks are disproportionately high because we are disproportionately poor and disadvantaged but we have to get through to our young people that crime is not the solution, education is the solution. If we are educated and capable then the non-blacks, no matter their personal feelings about us, will employ us because they want to exploit our knowledge and skill for their own advancement. This puts us in a position of strength from which we can really start to change the social economic situation and in the process the public perception of black people in general. If 90% of blacks were doctors, lawyers, police commissioners and other prominent professions what do you think the perception of the black race would be? Blaming others for our plight won’t change our current situation only we can change our situation.
In the end we are all one race, with the same goals in life. I want to live a prosperous life, in good health surrounded by my family who I want to be able to provide for. I imagine if you asked a Chinese citizen, or a Russian citizen what his goals in life are they would have similar responses. The truth is we are not so different irrespective of race, colour or creed we only take different routes to the same destination. What we have to educate ourselves is that there is no right or wrong route it is the destination that is important, that in fact we all strive for the same thing, have the same fears and insecurities and that the differences are not to be feared but understood, tolerated and not seen as threatening.