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Why the Dalai Lama Is Important For All of China
Posted in The Vance Report on 07/27/2008 12:09 am by Robert Vance
Most Chinese people hate the Dalai Lama with a passion; my friends and students certainly are not bashful about saying so. Why do they hate him so much? Well, there are many reasons, of course but the events of yesterday in the United States is a prime example. Yesterday, in Aspen, Colorado, the Dalai Lama met with Republican presidential nominee John McCain to talk about the Tibetan situation and human rights in China. Why will this most likely enrage the Chinese government and most Chinese people? First, Chinese people hate the fact that the Dalai Lama is allowed to travel so freely within the international community. They think that he should be an outcast; not a welcomed public figure. Second, many Chinese people cannot bear to think that the Dalai Lama is so warmly welcomed by world leaders everywhere. They think he should be shunned; not so warmly embraced by the likes of George Bush, Nancy Pelosi, and John McCain. After all, what right does he have to discuss Chinese ‘internal’ affairs with the rest of the world? Who made him the spokesman?
Personally, I do have some mixed feelings about the Dalai Lama. While I do not buy into all of the conspiracy theories about links between him and the CIA or his involvement in the recent Tibet uprisings, I am not convinced that his organization is as clean ‘as the driven snow’ as so many would like to suggest. I realize that he won a Nobel Peace Prize some years ago, but after it was bestowed upon Al Gore last year, I lost faith in the value of that distinction. No matter how peaceful of a man he is able to present himself as to the world, I am sure that there are some darker aspects of his work that would surprise many of his supporters.
However, I do admire the Dalai Lama for one simple reason. Forget about Tibet for a moment. It is part of China and that is not going to change. Even the Dalai Lama has said that he is not calling for independence. In my estimation, the Dalai Lama’s contribution to peace and harmony has little to do specifically with Tibet. The fact is, the Dalai Lama stands for much more than just autonomy in Tibet. He stands for human rights in China; he is a constant reminder to world leaders and policy makers that the human rights situation in China cannot be ignored.
Chinese people see the Dalai Lama as the representative of a rogue province that wants to further separate itself from the rest of the country. What they do not realize is that the Dalai Lama is also unofficially representing their interests. Chinese citizens being beaten in prison, women being forced to have abortions, and Christians being persecuted are just a few of the major human rights violations that are still taking place throughout China. These issues are not unique to Tibet; there are ordinary Han Chinese people who are suffering greatly as well. Yet, even those who are the victims of human rights violations are not willing to accept the Dalai Lama as their spokesman because they have been brainwashed into believing that he wants to destroy China. In other words, the Dalai Lama is very much hated by a people that can benefit greatly from having his voice heard in the international community. Many people here have no idea what is good for them. This is a tragedy.
So maybe I do not see the Dalai Lama as an angel. Maybe I do not hang on his every word like many. Maybe I am suspicious, like many Chinese people, about some of the tactics being used behind the scenes by his organization. But no one is perfect right? The Dalai Lama does serve an important purpose in that he keeps the attention on the human rights issues in China and world leaders listen to him. I would like to hope that someday in the not so distant future, the vilification that he has received in his own country will be replaced with gratefulness from a people that realize that in the end, he has been fighting for the whole country, not just Tibet.
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07/29/2008 at 4:24 pm
I disagree. I think it is just the opposite.
Dalai Lama is very important to foreign politicians.
See how the US politicians trying to out do one another in China bashing and support the Dalai Lama. If they don’t do that they are called weak or kowtow to China and this can be fatal to their election chance. Look at Bush. He must be laughing inside.
Having all the classified information about CIA’s involvement in Tibet and with no more election ahead, he is the least excited.
CIA and the Dalai Lama give human rights a bad name in China.
People ask, do we count on these people to promote our rights?
While RV very lightly dismissed the role played by the CIA, I can tell u that this is the top concern of most people. The Americans are killing hundreds of thousnads of people in Iraq and Palestine and then claim to be interested in human rights in China. They are backing the arsonists in Lhasa and try to disrupt the Olympic games on the one hand, and claim to love the Chinese people to death.
RV, I think you ve some nice explainations for all these, unfortunately those explainations only serve to convince your home crowd.
I think the internet also played an important role in shaping people’s thought.
The Dalai Lama’s camp including the media are mostly racists and cold wariors who think have found a nice disguised to bash Chinese and still gain respectability.
They channelled their fear of a rising China all onto the Dalai Lama course.
07/29/2008 at 4:41 pm
Yugung said,
I disagree. I think it is just the opposite. Dalai Lama is very important to foreign politicians.
Robert said,
Are we talking about this article? How is what you said opposite of what I said? I didn’t say that the Dalai Lama was not important to foreign politicians. Obviously he is important to world leaders or they wouldn’t be meeting with him so much. I was pointing out, as you failed to realize, that for me personally, I DO have some doubts about the Dalai Lama but that I appreciate the fact that he stands for human rights in China.
Yugung said,
While RV very lightly dismissed the role played by the CIA, I can tell u that this is the top concern of most people. The Americans are killing hundreds of thousnads of people in Iraq and Palestine and then claim to be interested in human rights in China. They are backing the arsonists in Lhasa and try to disrupt the Olympic games on the one hand, and claim to love the Chinese people to death.
RV, I think you ve some nice explainations for all these, unfortunately those explainations only serve to convince your home crowd.
Robert says: I have never lightly dismissed the role played by the CIA. Instead, I have pointed out that there is little evidence to back up your claims. Especially your claim here that the CIA was somehow behind what happened in Tibet in March. Come on. Does anyone believe that?
Americans are interested in human rights which is partly why we have been involved in Iraq and the Middle East in general. Our involvement also has to do with national security concerns.
Yugung says:
I think the internet also played an important role in shaping people’s thought.
The Dalai Lama’s camp including the media are mostly racists and cold wariors who think have found a nice disguised to bash Chinese and still gain respectability.
They channelled their fear of a rising China all onto the Dalai Lama course.
Robert says:
So people who support the Dalai Lama and criticize China are racists? That’s a pretty wild statement to make considering the diversity that exists within the Dalai Lama’s ‘camp’ as you call it. And, I happen to know prominent people in the US who are Chinese themselves (born in China and not in Tibet) and support what the Dalai Lama is standing for. I suppose they are racist too?
07/29/2008 at 7:54 pm
Dalai is the spiritual leader for yellow hat sect. I respect his religious poistion. That’s the fact. Chinese government realized it and that’s why government has been still willing to negotiate with him all the time.
Dalai lied to the world to win the smypathy and gain the fund is also the fact that no one should deny that. If you take a look of all his comments and speeches for 30 years, you could find lots of his words were contradict. Honest should be the baseline of the human being. As religious leader, he should understand very well, but failed to be honest. That’s the point that Chinese don’t like him.
If he could consider about all the benefit of Tibetan people both outside and inside, he should talk with Chinese government in a practical method instead of GTA concept. If a peace agreement could be reached, it would be beneficial for all of the world. I wish that day will come and hope he would be back to do his religious affairs with his followers.
07/29/2008 at 8:04 pm
Jason said,
Dalai is the spiritual leader for yellow hat sect. I respect his religious poistion. That’s the fact. Chinese government realized it and that’s why government has been still willing to negotiate with him all the time.
Dalai lied to the world to win the smypathy and gain the fund is also the fact that no one should deny that. If you take a look of all his comments and speeches for 30 years, you could find lots of his words were contradict. Honest should be the baseline of the human being. As religious leader, he should understand very well, but failed to be honest. That’s the point that Chinese don’t like him.
If he could consider about all the benefit of Tibetan people both outside and inside, he should talk with Chinese government in a practical method instead of GTA concept. If a peace agreement could be reached, it would be beneficial for all of the world. I wish that day will come and hope he would be back to do his religious affairs with his followers.
Robert says: Well, the Dalai Lama has also become something of a ‘politician’ as well in the past 30 years so I wouldn’t be surprised if he has made some contradictory statements.
I appreciate the fact that you respect his religious position and that you hope he can return to do his religious affairs but I think that you are understating the true situation when you write that “Chinese don’t like him.” I know Chinese people who have said they would like to “kill” him and that he is a menace to Chinese culture and society. It seems that your tone is much more conciliatory; most people I talk to in China seem to think that the Dalai Lama is a “devil” and that his mother should be cursed for giving birth to him. I would replace your words “don’t like him” with “hate him.” Don’t you agree?
07/29/2008 at 9:47 pm
“I think that you are understating the true situation when you write that “Chinese don’t like him.” I know Chinese people who have said they would like to “kill” him and that he is a menace to Chinese culture and society.”
@Robert,
I disagree with you about that. I think to say “Chinese is angry against him” will be more accurate expression due to 3.14 riots when so many innocent people were killed by Tibetan riots. The curse and some serious words are simply the way to express the anger(someone goes to so extreme, it’s normal in every sociaty), i think that’s what human being’s nature, do you agree? As China could forgive Japan’s crime after the war(arranged to send back millions of immigrants from north east China back to Japan. Sent the Japanese war criminal back to Japan), I believe China could forgive Dalai’s wrong doing too since we are in the one family. That’s what I could see from our government.
07/29/2008 at 10:24 pm
Jason says,
As China could forgive Japan’s crime after the war(arranged to send back millions of immigrants from north east China back to Japan. Sent the Japanese war criminal back to Japan),
Robert says:
China forgave Japan? When? I’m glad you brought up the topic of Japan. If there is one thing that the Chinese hate even MORE than the Dalai Lama, it’s Japan and anything related to it. If China sent Japanese back to Japan after World War ii, it was only because they didn’t want (and understandably so) any Japanese living on Chinese soil. I don’t think there was any forgiveness involved in that action. I posted this article today…
http://www.teachabroadchina.com/chinese-hate-japanese-television-bejing/
If you think that Chinese people have forgiven Japan for World War ii, you are out of touch with reality here. While I understand the history between Japan and China, I would have to say that the hatred I sense from Chinese people towards the Dalai Lama and Japan is irrational. It is not “normal” as you would suggest. It is ingrained into the souls of the Chinese people; I have never heard such hatred from people who I do consider to be average citizens. It’s pretty amazing and scary and can be found even in the youth of China.
07/30/2008 at 10:11 am
I don’t know how many American/ Briitish buy ur story but I do know very few Chinese see things ur way. U claimed that the Anglo-USA alliance is in Iraq to defend human rights. I give u 10 out of 10 for patriotism. No wonder you are able recognize the Dalai Lama as Chinese saviour. Thank you very much for ur “love” of the Chinese people. With such good friend who needs enemy.
RV claimed that there is no proof that the Dalai Lama or the CIA is behing the rioting in March this year. I don’t know what kind of proof he is looking for.
China’s Government with the backing of the all the survallence service said the Dalai Lama is involved in the rioting. RV thinks that is CCP propaganda.
The Dalai Lama worked for the CIA since the 50s. CIA admitted it.
USA is funding the Dalai Lama. Some of the funding is open. Most of it, I believe, is secret and we have to wait another 30 years for the CIA to declassify them.
Every few months we here Pentagon officials or CIA officials or some think tanks comming to Congress to testify that China is a big threat.
Dispite of all these, RV want us to believe that Chinese are just being paranoid and the Dalai Lama is Chinese saviour.
CIA is a serial killer serving the interest of the west centered around the Anglo-American Alliance. They will never rest until 1) destroy China. or 2) are too bankrupt to create mischieves.
07/30/2008 at 10:27 am
RV:
So people who support the Dalai Lama and criticize China are racists? That’s a pretty wild statement to make considering the diversity that exists within the Dalai Lama’s ‘camp’ as you call it. And, I happen to know prominent people in the US who are Chinese themselves (born in China and not in Tibet) and support what the Dalai Lama is standing for. I suppose they are racist too?
Yugung:
The Dalai Lam camp are half racists, half cold warriors.
They gain respectability by finding issue such as Tibet to bash China.
Please name a few ” prominent people in the US who are Chinese themselves (born in China and not in Tibet) and support what the Dalai Lama is standing for.” and we can have more indept discussion on it.
07/30/2008 at 5:14 pm
“Robert says:
China forgave Japan? When? I’m glad you brought up the topic of Japan. If there is one thing that the Chinese hate even MORE than the Dalai Lama, it’s Japan and anything related to it. If China sent Japanese back to Japan after World War ii, it was only because they didn’t want (and understandably so) any Japanese living on Chinese soil.”
@Robert,
I could see that you lack of the history and you only saw the anger of youth and thought it was hatred. But you didn’ t ask why those people could become angry.
You didn’t know that Japanese left millions of his people in the North East China without helping them to return to Japan. It was Chinese people who managed and helped them to go back. I wish you could learn this history to how generosity Chinese people did at that time. There were lots of stories about those people who failed to return Japan and later raised by Chinese. So many stories you didn’t know. Again, you forgive your ignorant since you are foreigners but please don’t use your shallow obersavtion to get your conclusion.
Chinese is angry about Japanese because some Japaneses is alway attempting to revise the history to make his war as rightous and denied his criminal committed in China. When such kind of issue happens, it’s not just Chinese people angry, all of Asian people are angry, please take a look the attitude of Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, all of the people there condemned Japanese.
If Japanese said that they didn’t attack Pearl harbor, do you think American will not become angry?
Please read more histories and events about Japan and China. Don’t be so ignorant too.
07/31/2008 at 6:55 pm
@Jason,
Stop assuming what I do or do not know. You do know me. You do not know what I know. Calling me ignorant only makes it seem that you have no argument. I am not Chinese but that does not mean that I have NOT studied history. For some reason, too many people think that just because they are Chinese, they are automatically right and everyone else is wrong when it comes to Chinese history.
I know all about the Japanese people who were repatriated back to Japan after World War ii. Incidentally, you forget to mention that the USA worked with China and Japan to help make this happen. But of course, you wouldn’t mention that would you because America only ever causes evil in the world, right?
I appreciate the fact that these Japanese people were repatriated and I appreciate the fact that so many orphans (thousands as you mentioned) were adopted. However, you fail to mention the fact that by other people, the Japanese were treated very badly. There are also stories of civilian Japanese (post World War ii) being beaten and driven out of their cities. While I recognize that people were obviously very angry at the Japanese and for good reason, don’t try to make it sound like it was a cakewalk for Japanese people in China after World War ii.
I reject your argument that I only saw the anger of youth and thought it was hatred. When someone says that they hate something or someone, what does that mean to you? Don’t try to downplay the hate that people here still have against the Japanese. People like you want the Japanese to rewrite their history books so that little Japanese children grow up thinking that they should hate themselves for what happened in World War ii. You want future generations of Japanese people to feel incredible guilt even though they had nothing to do with what happened.
And you are exaggerating when you state “If Japanese said that they didn’t attack Pearl harbor, do you think American will not become angry?” The Japanese don’t deny that they attacked China. They can’t deny that they attacked Nanjing. No one denies it OK? I haven’t seen the textbooks personally, but the conversations that I have had with Japanese people, they are VERY aware of what happened in Nanjing and NO one is proud of it.
07/31/2008 at 10:21 pm
RV:
The Japanese don’t deny that they attacked China. They can’t deny that they attacked Nanjing. No one denies it OK? I haven’t seen the textbooks personally, but the conversations that I have had with Japanese people, they are VERY aware of what happened in Nanjing and NO one is proud of it.
Yugung:
Japan’s text book reform was the work of a right wing group with strong link to the ruling LDP called the Society for History Textbook Reform.
They believe that Japan was not the aggressor in World War II but the liberator, fighting to defend itself from the U.S. and European powers and free Asia from the yoke of white colonialism; Imperial troops were not guilty, as most historians suggest, of some of the worst war crimes of the 20th century but the “normal excesses” of armies everywhere; Japan’s “masochistic” emphasis on atonement is leading to the “moral decline” of its young. Thus the need to revise the existing history teaching.
The Society submitted its own 337-page New History textbook for approval for use in high schools by the Japanese Ministry of Education in late 2000. The highlights of the first draft are:
1) the Japanese invasion of Asia was called the “war in Asia and the Pacific” and the word “invasion” (shinryaku) changed to “advancement” (shinshutsu), or replaced with neutral phases like “extension of the battle line” (sensen o kakudai).
2) References to Unit 731, a bio-warfare unit that most authoritative researchers claim caused thousands of Chinese deaths, were dropped.
3) The 1937 Nanjing massacre, when some historians estimate imperial troops slaughtered thousands of Chinese civilians, was changed to the “Nanjing incident” and the number of casualties downplayed, with the implication that China fabricated the episode.
4) References to “comfort women,” or an estimated 100,000-200,000 sexual slaves from across Asia forced to service imperial troops, were not included. The comfort women, said Professor Fujioka (vice chairman) in a famous essay, were prostitutes and “There is no need to teach children these kinds of facts.”
07/31/2008 at 11:06 pm
@Yugung,
Thanks for providing this information in English. Most of Asian people knew Japanese tried to change the history. But Westerner tried to ignore such things.
@Robert,
Calling you ignorant because you didn’t know the above information that Yugung provided.
Calling you ignorant because many Japanese civilian were killed by Japanese soldier due to their “Warrior spirit”.
Calling you ignorant because you didn’t really understand what the real Chinese culture is.
Please try to talk in Chinese and read in Chinese so that we can contact more information instead of just information from Western world. Once you are bilingual, you could compare both side information.
You always try to use Western thought to explain Asian culture. You are unable to use Chinese culture to explain Chinese affair.
I’ve never said US is evil. But I do opponent US imposed by force for the other country to accept their “Democracy”, especially the Iraq war.
07/31/2008 at 11:12 pm
@Robert,
“No one denies it OK? ”
I had a Japanese colleague before. It happened we talked about this question which I was cautious. And I got his opinion was all of Chinese killed in Nanjing were military people, no civilians. So called civilians were those who took off the uniform and acted themselves as civilians. And he denied the number and only accepted thounsands who were killed during fight.
So that’s what you called “No one denies it”.
To respect he was my colleague, I stopped such topic with him. But I could see one thing that it’s the real situation Japan didn’t tell the truth to their people.
08/01/2008 at 9:57 am
@Yugung,
I appreciate the information that you posted (although a source would be nice). Like I said before, I have never looked inside of a Japanese textbook…
Again though, what exactly do you expect the Japanese to write in their textbooks about the invasion? Yes, Japan did a very bad thing and the world knows it. But how would you write the history books that are being used for these new generations? You would probably want to make sure that every child felt horrible and guilty about what happened. You would probably want to make them hate their great grandparents. Don’t forget…not every Japanese soldier was involved in the horrible atrocities that took place in China. Some did think that they were on an honorable mission…
I have gotten an inside look into some of the textbooks in China. While curriculum varies from province to province and even city to city it is interesting to note how many history textbooks in China gloss over the atrocities that were perpetrated on the Chinese people by Chairman Mao and the Communist Party. Millions of people who died of starvation…millions who were thrown in jail, tortured, and killed by other Chinese people? Welcome to the world, Yugung. Countries do have a habit of ‘glossing’ over their mistakes because they want future generations to be able to move on and not be bogged down by what happened in the past. Unfortunately, it seems that you and others hope that future Japanese generations will continually fall at the feet of the Chinese people begging for mercy and forgiveness.
08/01/2008 at 3:48 pm
RV:
Japan did a very bad thing and the world knows it. But how would you write the history books that are being used for these new generations? You would probably want to make sure that every child felt horrible and guilty about what happened. You would probably want to make them hate their great grandparents. Don’t forget…not every Japanese soldier was involved in the horrible atrocities that took place in China. Some did think that they were on an honorable mission…
Yugung:
The old text book were written by Japanese scholars and had been in use for decades. Their sins were being “leftist” , “unpatriotic” “masochistic” and scaring children. RV is also argueing that since not all Japanese soldiers were bad there should be a blackout. U will find very few Japanese soldier who had not abuse the comfort women yet that was left out of history books.
RV:
many history textbooks in China gloss over the atrocities that were perpetrated on the Chinese people by Chairman Mao and the Communist Party. Millions of people who died of starvation…millions who were thrown in jail, tortured, and killed by other Chinese people? Welcome to the world, Yugung. Countries do have a habit of ‘glossing’ over their mistakes because they want future generations to be able to move on and not be bogged down by what happened in the past. Unfortunately, it seems that you and others hope that future Japanese generations will continually fall at the feet of the Chinese people begging for mercy and forgiveness.
Yugung:
I ve not heard any foreign government complain about Chinese text book except the fascist appologists when they want to justify their own history revision.
I wouldn’t care if US text book call Bush a maths genious. It’s when when you write about ur foreign agression that other nations protest.
If US history were to call the invasion of Iraq “an advancement into Iraqi territory in self defence” and Iraqi civilian casualty were” fabrication by leftists and masochist who wanted to see American fall at the feet of the Iraqi people begging for mercy and forgiveness.” I think future Arab scholars will protest.
08/01/2008 at 4:33 pm
Yugung said:
RV is also argueing that since not all Japanese soldiers were bad there should be a blackout. U will find very few Japanese soldier who had not abuse the comfort women yet that was left out of history books.
Robert says:
You are putting words in my mouth again. You pulled the word “blackout” out of thin air. A blackout would be the complete removal of any information about Japan’s invasion into China from Japanese textbooks. Obviously, that hasn’t happened as the Japanese do acknowledge that they went into China.
Yugung said:
I ve not heard any foreign government complain about Chinese text book except the fascist appologists when they want to justify their own history revision.
I wouldn’t care if US text book call Bush a maths genious. It’s when when you write about ur foreign agression that other nations protest.
If US history were to call the invasion of Iraq “an advancement into Iraqi territory in self defence” and Iraqi civilian casualty were” fabrication by leftists and masochist who wanted to see American fall at the feet of the Iraqi people begging for mercy and forgiveness.” I think future Arab scholars will protest.
Robert Vance says:
You missed my point. What I was attempting to point out is that every country has a hand in writing its own history and often that version of history is very distorted. China has had to rewrite (or omit history) in order to avoid condemning Chairman Mao and the hundreds (if not thousands) of Communist government officials and soldiers who did his bloody bidding. What about Tiananmen square? That is what I would call a real blackout. Frankly, I think that part of the problem is that Japan feels like China is (and has been for a long time) trying to stick its ‘paws’ into Japan’s domestic affairs. Japan does not want to be bullied by China. Maybe if you (and others) stopped whining about modern day Japan, the ‘reconiciliation’ that you are looking for would come quicker. Frankly though, I doubt it. Too many Chinese people are programmed to hate the Japanese and I’m not sure that anything can change that.
08/01/2008 at 6:26 pm
“Again though, what exactly do you expect the Japanese to write in their textbooks about the invasion? Yes, Japan did a very bad thing and the world knows it. But how would you write the history books that are being used for these new generations? You would probably want to make sure that every child felt horrible and guilty about what happened. You would probably want to make them hate their great grandparents.”
@Robert,
So if Germany , yb using your logic, revises the history of their persecussion agaisnt Jews, do you think the people in the world can agree that?
First of all, do you support their action?
08/02/2008 at 8:42 am
RV:
I think that part of the problem is that Japan feels like China is (and has been for a long time) trying to stick its ‘paws’ into Japan’s domestic affairs. Japan does not want to be bullied by China. Maybe if you (and others) stopped whining about modern day Japan, the ‘reconiciliation’ that you are looking for would come quicker. Frankly though, I doubt it. Too many Chinese people are programmed to hate the Japanese and I’m not sure that anything can change that.
Yugung:
1) China never complain about how Japan wrote its own internal history. Only the part that has to do with China and Asia.
2) No country has ever complain about China’s internal history except the Fascist apologists looking for an excuse to revise Japan’s past history of external agression.
RV said I have put words in his mouth.
ok, use ur own words and state clearly how Japan should write about the comfort women and its use of human experiment for Biological weapon.
08/07/2008 at 6:17 am
Who are this fascists?