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Dating and Sex in China
Written by Robert Vance on May 25, 2008 – 10:16 pm“Two American men were deported for sleeping with too many girls,” a foreign friend reported to me sometime ago. “They gave a number of girls hope about marriage and traveling to America and the girls willingly gave themselves to the guys.” My friend was a teacher in a small town in Central China were news always traveled fast. She explained that when the girls realized that they had been ‘used’, they complained to the local authorities who promptly arrested the men and sent them out of the country.
While such stories are relatively rare in China, there is little doubt that Chinese women are regularly taken advantage of by a handful of the thousands of foreigners who are living and working in China. Some foreigners arrive in China with the attitude that this country is a ‘playland’ and that taking advantage of Chinese women will have no consequences. Still, there many more foreigners in China who just happen to meet a nice girl that they are truly interested in. Thus, the million dollar question presents itself. Is it a good idea for foreigners to date Chinese women?
The simple answer to this question is ‘yes.’ But wait. don’t close this page quite yet. There are a few tips that you should have in your mind before you step into the Chinese dating scene.
- –Be honest with your girflfriend about your intentions. If you are only going to be living in China temporarily, make sure that she understand this. Do not lead her on by giving her false hope for the future. Doing this could cause trouble for you later on.
- –PDA (Public Display of Affection) is still highly frowned upon in many parts of China. Kissing and even holding hands in public is considered improper by the older generation.
- –Going to visit your girlfriend’s hometown is often seen as a serious step towards marriage in China. If you are invited to visit your girlfriends’ hometown during a holiday, be careful. Accepting the invitation may send the wrong message to her and her family.
- –In traditional culture, the fewer boyfriends that a girl has before marriage, the better. Ideally, a girl should marry her first boyfriend.
- –Having multiple girlfriends in China is never a good idea. As I wrote about earlier, acting ‘the playboy’ in China could have serious consquences on the status of your visa.
A quiet yet powerful sexual revolution seems to have been spreading through China since the turn of the millenium. Attitudes about sex before marriage are gradually changing amongst the younger generation. I wrote about this change a few months ago in an article entitled Sex and Hypocrisy - The Edison Chen Scandal. However, engaging in sexual activity with a Chinese girl is still not a wise decision for the following reasons:
- –If your girlfriend’s parents discover that you are involved sexually with their daughter, there may be ‘hell to pay.’ Chinese parents are often extremely protective over their ‘adult’ children and you could find yourself in serious legal and physical danger. I have heard stories about enraged parents who have taken matters into their own hands if they feel that their daughter’s honor has been somehow compromised.
- –If the local police happen to notice that a young lady is spending an inordinate amount of time at your apartment, they may suspect that she is a hired prostitute. I have heard stories of foreigners being deported on the basis of that very suspicion.
- –Impregnating a Chinese girl is a serious matter in China. Do not assume that because you are a foreigner that you will be able to just leave the girl and let her ‘fend for herself.’ Passports of foreigners who impregnated Chinese girls have been blocked before so don’t count on leaving the country.
- –For most girls in China, having sex is a sign of a serious relationship that is headed towards marriage. While there are always exceptions, most Chinese girls do not want to be simply used as a ‘plaything.’ Thus, engaging in sex should never be taken lightly.
Never forget that you are a guest in China. You are an unofficial representative of your country and every action that you take will be scrutinized by someone. It is also important to remember that Chinese girls, like any other girls around the world, have feelings. In a country where boy-girl relationships are not taken lightly, being given hope by a foreigner, used for ‘pleasure’, and then abandoned, could destroy a girl’s outlook on life. You also need to understand the concept of ‘family shame’ in China. Bringing shame upon a Chinese girl will also bring shame upon her family. In some areas of China, such shame could result in the girl being treated as an outcast in her family and village or even being subjected to physical abuse.
There is nothing inherently wrong with having a girlfriend in China. Such a relationship can you help you become better acclimated to the culture and learn more about your city. It can also be a good way for you to have a positive impact on a Chinese girl’s life. However, it may be a good idea to treat this relationship more as a friendship unless you are seriously considering marrying the young lady. Just be careful and think about the consequences of your actions not only for yourself but also for the Chinese girl and her family.
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Too true. Chinese girls are often in a “hurry up and commit” mode after college (and sometimes in college) and they are very quick to fall in love and subsequently jump in bed, while non-commitment minded foreigners find this an easy situation to sample China’s abundant buffet. There are always girls up for commitment-free fun and girls that are genuine girlfriend-material, but the most important aspect is making sure that both parties are on the same page about the relationship. I’ve been in both situations and I’m always careful especially when feelings develop (for me and/or her) but when there is true affection, a Chinese girl/foreign guy relationship can be very enjoyable; otherwise it’s just empty fun for the moment that can often have negative consequences.
This sounds like an “AMERICAN HOW TO MANUAL” - the deepest insight I could find is “It is also important to remember that Chinese girls, like any other girls around the world, have feelings.” (and so do men) - despite all the cultural differences this is what it comes down to in a 1-on-1 relationship.
@Mark
Thanks for your comments. I completely agree that a Chinese girl/foreign guy relationship can be great and beneficial for both parties involved. Unfortunately, I have seen too many Chinese girls used and deeply hurt by foreign men which is what prompted me to write this post.
@ysl
Thank you for your comments. This was not meant to be a manual on dating but rather a post to remind foreign guys that the dating culture here is different than in the West. As I remarked to the Mark, I have seen Chinese girls lives literally ruined by foreigners who gave them the wrong impression about their true intentions.
A thoughtful post, but there are two sides to this coin. There is nothing to say in defense of laowai who take advantage of hapless Chinese girls. But there are just as many Chinese girls who take advantage of clueless laowai, whether for a visa or a green card.
But the problem is not just utilitarian—it is cultural. Why is there a strain of promiscuity in foreign males (I say male because most of these reports are of males) who come to China? Why do some Chinese women hold such high expectations toward relationships while others are in it for sex or money? These are other subjects for other posts, of course.
I hope reasonable people who are contemplating an international relationship will heed the advice in this post. But I fear that the people who need to read this most are combing their hair, lacing their shoes, and getting ready to go out to find someone to take home.
@George
Thanks for your comments. I suppose I could have included a warning in my post about Chinese girls who are out there fishing for green cards but I did not want that to be the main focus. I do also think that the opening story contained an indirect warning along those lines.
You are right when you write that “the problem is not just utilitarian — it is cultural.” Promiscuity in foreign males and expectations held by Chinese women would be great topics for an anthropological type paper. The perspective that I used to write this post is simply based on the many times that I have seen Chinese girls get hurt by foreigners; especially girls in their late teenage years and early 20’s. I have seen girls’ outlooks on life ruined as a result of a disastrous relationship with a foreigner.
This post was targeted at reasonable people. Those who are intent on using and abandoning Chinese girls aren’t on the web looking for advice about living in China. They are just going to do whatever they want to do…
Obviously, you had a good point. As a young woman in my late teenage years,( and also a Chinese), I’d like to make some comments on your post on behalf of no one but myself.
It’s true that some people seriously consider China to be a playland and certain Chinese girls to be hookers of no charge. And I believe that this seemingly ridiculous thought doesn’t come out of nowhere. Somehow we have given you the reason to think that way, whether we’d like to admit it or not.
But I would like to mention that it’s not just about your ID as a foreigner or your appearance that tells your from the rest of us.(Although, some fun-loving women might regard dating or sleeping with a foreigner as something enjoyable. No comments on that from me!)I know a few girls will kill to date a rich man,and of course they shall be more than willing to offer themselves in a sexual way. And people from abroad are usually labelled as rich people, who spends dollars instead of RMB, and who smoke cigar instead of cigerettes. ( Just trying to draw an example figuratively, pardon me if it doesn’t make sense, ) Therefore, they will certainly guarantee a prosperous future to them, in their way of thinking.
Regardless of one’s skin, or one’s nationalities, these girls see nothing but that “cash” print on one’s forehead.
What’s most disgusting is that people despise these girls and at the same time try very hard to look up to them. And that, my friend, is called reality here.
Have a good day!
Gill, China
I liked Mark’s post simillar to this one at http://laowaiink.blogspot.com/2008/04/chinese-girls-heart-tread-softy.html that he posted a few weeks ago.
@Gill
Thanks for your comments. They are both fascinating and sad. I wonder how many girls’ lives in China have been ‘ruined’ by relationships with foreign guys?
When you said that “somehow we have given you the reason to think that way, whether we’d like to admit it or not” I think you were trying to place some of the responsibility on the shoulders of Chinese girls. While I agree that Chinese girls do share some of the blame, it is important for foreigners to know what they are getting into before they step into the Chinese dating scene. I think someone else out there (the government perhaps or their parents?) should be warning Chinese girls about the perils of ‘falling’ for a foreign guy. With that said, I know of many true ‘love stories’ in China that I think are genuinely based on true feelings and not on ‘the love of money.’
[...] My article on Sex and Dating in China has received a lot of attention this week on the web. While the post was meant to encourage [...]
Mr. Vance,
The 2 guys you mentioned I believe are in complete minority of foreign men here. I just got married to my Chinese wife last year and it has been great. (besides the nasty stares and comments we recieve on a daily basis)
Most foreigners I come across here in Guangzhou, are either married, have a steady girlfriend, or they are just visiting and dont mind paying the low price for a hooker.
In my years here I have yet to met a single foreigner that just sleeps around, promissing women marriage. I’m not saying it doesnt happen, but I personally never seen it.
Besides are there not just as many men in the US who do virtually them same thing these 2 men did?
Jason
@Jason,
Thanks for your comments. While I did not know the two men I wrote about in this article, I have known other men who have been guilty of similar exploits. There was a young man who I knew in the first Chinese town where I taught who almost drove a girl to suicide because of his deceptions. Other foreigners that I have met throughout my travels here have bragged about this kind of thing claiming that Chinese girls are just “too easy.”
There are, as you suggest, “just as many men in the US who do virtually the same thing” but I don’ t think that there are as many girls who fall for it. That’s not to say that Chinese women are gullible but as I wrote in the article, Chinese girls have a different perception of what love and dating means here.
Robert：
Whatever the motivation that drove certain Chinese girls to seemingly fall for the wrong foreign guys is, that truth is these girl will do good to be more insightful when looking for a serious relationship with a foreigner, whose background or history will be totally dependent on their own versions and these girls fantasy.
If these girls know those guys languages, cultures, or backgrounds very well, then they should be able to blow their cover as easily as they can do to random playboys in their own surroundings.
If these girls prove ignorant in all aspects, then even some Chinese men whom they think they know pretty well may tend to hurt them. It’s all the same,
And I will just make it clear that I have never been thinking about defending those foreigners who think Chinese girls are easy. I just want to say that those guys are just not eligible to experience wonderful Chinese women.
And I’d like to correct you on” Chinese girls have a different perception of what love and dating means here.” Let’s not let a couple of ignorant and unrealistic Chinese girls be the reason for you to discriminate again the majority of Chinese girls on love, shall we?
Gill, China
@Gill
Thanks for your comments. I am not sure what you mean when you say
“let’s not let a couple of ignorant and unrealistic Chinese girls be the reason for you to discriminate against the majority of Chinese girls on love…”
I am not discriminating against anyone. In fact, I appreciate that Chinese girls seem to take relationships more seriously…surely you are not suggesting that Chinese girls and American girls (for example) have the same perception of love and dating are you?
Well I guess I was trying to say that most Chinese girls were not that easy, nor were the girls from foreign countries.
I think the article would’ve been more helpful to address the issues of foreign women and Chinese men as well.
@Tamara,
I completely agree with you. It would have been nice if I had discussed issues surrounding foreign women and Chinese men. It’s just that I have never encountered this kind of relationship in China. Seriously. Throughout all my time here, I have never met a foreign girl who was dating a Chinese man. I suppose that could be an article in and of itself. If you have anything to add, please do. Thanks for your comments.
@ Gill
You are so right my dear….I lived in China for a while and have met a lot of these girlies with just one priority - money….constantly fishing for foreign men, making those guys believe how much they love them and how wonderful they are. So let’s not forget that. It was really too obvious to not notice.
But this is just one kind of girls in China, isn’t it.
On the other hand I also have seen a lot of scummy foreign men being very rude drunken and loud, as it has been mentioned really using China as their playground.
And that’s again only one kind of foreigners…there are others too.
@Barbara,
Thanks for your comments. I suppose I could write another article about these so called ‘Green Card Girls’ who take advantage of poor, innocent foreigners. I guess it’s just that I really haven’t encountered so many of these girls in China. What I have encountered are too many foreign men who take advantage of a Chinese girl because 1). He makes the girl think he loves her… or in some rare instances 2). he takes advantage of the girl because he knows that she thinks she is going to get a green card out of the deal. Really though, it is usually #1 that I see most commonly in China.
are dating web sites fully legal in China?
Robert, yes the matchmaker is a traditional part of CHinese culture. That is why there are sites for Chinese women to meet men either from China or abroad. One of the most popular is Chn Love at http://www.chnlove.com/go.php?CP2528
Speaking from the experience of living with the same Chinese girl for 4 years plus, I think we produce and reproduce fantasy, unrealistic and unreasonable expectations in Chinese women and their fellow Chinese by characterising them as the ‘poor victims’ of ‘predatory Western men’. Any flexibility I may have had towards the idea of commitment was long outweighed by her other-wordly demands. Chinese people ought to chill out on all this, and we should stop reproducing the myth of their ‘innocence’. They are as crafty and manipulative as you or I, perhaps more so. Chinese people ought to ‘face’ up to their responsibilities as individuals, responsbilities that they know they have really, but that they still try to cover up. Mark my words: anyone who has actually been with a Chinese girl for a long-time, even if they were as genuinely interested as one can be when first meeting at the beginning, knows that the victim is really the foreigner (male). Don’t even go there (here). And the rest of you should stop talking uncritical rubbish. Look out for yourself, everyone else is, especially the Chinese. And if the state, or parents, interfere with interpersonal relations then they are wrong; they too should mind their own business, which as I have said they are very good at when they want to be. (Male) teachers in China looking for kicks would be better off using massage parlours (for intimate massages, not sex) than getting involved in a relationship (just be careful about hygiene etc). It is expected of you, and don’t let anybody tell you any different; they don’t know China. If you try to be ‘pure’ out here, and find ‘purity’ everywhere you look and go, you’re in a dreamland; take care you are not rudely awakened. When you are rudely awakened you’ll go home to the US, UK, Europe or wherever and you’ll have a whole new perspective on ‘purity’ there too. But somewhere in this cynicism is liberation, if only one can stand the pain of the truth.
@Mark,
Thanks for your comments. I think that you speak out of experience which lends alot credibility to what you are saying. However, I can say that this article was written based on my own experiences here and China and I have witnessed girls being deeply hurt by foreigners who used them…it happens alot!! Yes, there are girls who also take advantage of foreigners but this article was targeted at foreigners who use Chinese girls. This is a blog. I write about issues that I observe here in China and this issue has been a BIG one and it’s an issue that I have encoutered everywhere I go in China.
This second mark was obviously hurt by a Chinese girl(s) and is very much scorned. I am sorry for his pain, but I do not accept his blanket statements.
what mark said is true and nt only true to foreigners but also to chinese men, relationship today in china is all about money before sincerity,the old ways had gone and the new way has usher in. no money or good background no parent or girl looks at you today.and important thing here is the high demands from these girls without lose of face and in return they have nothing to offer in return.
i’m just sad there is no support group for us girls who like chinese guys…
talk about a dating adventure!
for every idea that foreigners have about chinese girls, chinese boys are full of ideas of what dating a “white” girl would be like…
Well I can say due to a recent experience that there are Chinese women out there that are for nothing but money. My ex-gf left me on the premise that I was broke and I was on my way to China next month to marry her. I’m still going but I’m going to be on my guard.
I also have a Chinese wife. I understand most points of view within this discussion. However, one has to realize the lack of cultural understanding towards both cultures. Western and Eastern. The majority of foriegners traveling to China have no idea of the traditional value system that controls family values and stereo typical ideals. I think there should be no blame, associated towards anyone. Foriegners traveling here are just acting the same as they would at home.
The Chinese government likes to use it’s countries traditional stance to project themselves and their people in a way where they are the sheep and the westerners are the wolves. This of course is very far from the truth. One can not expect a leopard to change it’s stripes just because of it’s location. China has been closed for such a long time, how can they expect westerners to understand the cultural differences. Also the Chinese seem to have a projected view that most foriegners are aliens from another planet. There lies the attraction.
We as westerners do not act the same towards Chinese women that enter into our own country. Why? Because we are open and have nothing to hide except our insecurities and sexual preferences. China can not expect this problem to go away unless they are honest and open. Which of course will never happen. Not in my life time anyway. Therefore, the problems between western men and Chinese women or girls are one of a cultural problem that will never improve unless the Chinese government become more open. Not towards us as westerners but towards their own people.
Opinion, no one to blame but the Government and the system they have set up, which allows them total control over the values and ideals within China.
I read your article with interest. My brother is a foreigner who brought a young woman 30 years younger to be with him here. She is supposed to be a nurse, supposed to be getting her credentials from Hong Kong (not happening), supposed to be studying to work here (not happening…sits on Facebook all day), supposed to be staying here with him permanently. The problem I have is her parents apparently wanted them back in Hong Kong when her visitor’s visa expired. Then my brother and her renewed her visa for another 6 months with no word about the parents. She does no work in the house, no cooking. She brought no money. He tells me they have had an 8 year “relationship”. He has never met anyone she knows, while she has met everyone he knows. She says our clothing style is not attractive so he orders her clothes from Japan or Hong Kong. She will not look at me in a close 5 month contact, will not say hello or talk to me. She tells me my age does not mean she should respect me as the only member of his family living. She tells me unless she says so I am no longer welcome at my brother’s house. He agrees. The reason for this is I asked her to look at me when I was in a room with her. I took her shopping to get to know her and her interests but she told my brother I stopped her from shopping. How curious that is! I was kind, friendly, giving, generous and welcoming. She has been very unfriendly, very uncommunicative, very secretive about her family or friends. But she has my brother wrapped around her very young fingers. She sits on his lap when I am there playing with his chest hair and poking at his face, twirling the hair on his head. I told her this offended me and she told my brother I was telling her what to do. I do not think she is honest or honourable and wonder why aren’t her parents demanding to know this foreign man who took their daughter so far away and who is sleeping with her? I do not trust this but it is out of my control. And since I am not permitted in his life anymore by her orders she has made me an enemy. I am wondering if the silence of her parents means there are none…or worse yet that they are only waiting until she tells them he has married her. I hate to sound so untrusting but she has given me nothing to trust and her treatment of me, being so powerful without a ring on her hand, means she is determined to isolate him from his family and friends. She is not friendly to anyone.
@Lana,
Wow. That is quite a story. I feel sorry for you; I also feel sorry for your brother who seems to be blinded by love (or whatever you call it in this situation). To think that your brother would allow a girl who he is not even married with to come between you and him is very sad…
The fact that she is thirty years younger than him is a cause for concern. While the focus of this article was more on how foreigners try to take advantage of Chinese women, it can certainly go both ways. I do see a lot of older men (and men who are truly disgusting to look at sometimes…) with very young Chinese women here. While I hate to think the worst, it seems that both the Chinese women and the man are using each other. The man is using the girl for sex and the girl is using the man for money.
Everything may seem great now between your brother and this girl but I wonder what it will be like after they get married. I would be willing to bet that your brother will end up regretting the marriage especially since this girl seems like she is extremly possessive. This is certainly not an advice column but I would suggest that you try to get some of your brother’s friends involved in this situation if you think there is still any hope. He may not listen to you but maybe he will listen to some of his close friends. Hopefully, they have made the same observations that you have.
In the end there may not be much you can do but I do agree with you that this is a strange situation and that there is probably much more to the story than she (or your brother) is letting on…
Good luck with this and let us know how it goes
Thanks for responding. My dil is Asian and my grandsons are being raised the Asian way, so it isn’t that I don’t have contact with another culture. I tried to involve her with my dil because their ages are closer than mine is being 33 years older, but my dil thought she was rude too. This girl told me she thought Caucasians were rude when I picked her up at the airport! My brother had just lost a lot of money to a Thai girl who said she loved him, and then this girl from Hong Kong texted him to say she still loved him, so within 2 weeks he was on the plane to Hong Kong to go get her. It seems those words are enough to get him to believe there is love. I will have to research Hong Kong family culture, but my friend who was born there tells me this girl is too secretive and wonders why the parents aren’t setting up a fuss. She also tells me that wearing pyjamas all day, every day is NOT the Hong Kong way. She sees it as unproductive. I believe her because she travels home at least once a year to see her extended family. She told me she didn’t know how to cook or clean when she came here either, but that the girl’s refusal to let me show her how tells her she has no intention of being a real wife but is looking for the money only, and she tells me the disrespect shown to me, the older woman in the family, means she has no intention of fitting in. I guess time will tell.
It takes two to tango. I don’t think the Chinese girls are as naive and pure as you think they are. Most of them go into a relationship thinking marriage, and will do anything to coerse the male into it; the excuses are multiple.
Cultural misunderstanding would be the most exaggerated excuse. Both parties have responsibility when it comes to jumping into the sack. Not communicating clearly the intent of the sack-activities, whether it be for fun or for ownership of the male, is just as much the fault of the girl than the guy.
To make an analogy, is it more useful to blame the thief for stealing bread or blaming the society that created such a person?
Where ever the American go, the leave behind a trail of unwanted children.
Where ever the Chinese go, they leave tons of rubbish, pollution, destroyed cultural relics and then settle down there with a wife and children that they don’t want.
Mydnight:
Where ever the Chinese go, they leave tons of rubbish, pollution, destroyed cultural relics and then settle down there with a wife and children that they don’t want.
Guyung:
That is an accurate description of American continent and the plight Native population of USA also in Vietnam.
In US the early white settlers killed the native males make their women sex slaves. They were made to do the cooking and washing for them.
When the white settlers leaved they sold these women and children to new settlers.
More recently in Vietnam, thousands of these unwanted children are left behind called “Bui Doi” or dust of life.
The problem is not big in China. It is a price that some individuals will pay heavily.
Mydnight,
I forgot the part about Whites dumping nuclear waste in native reserves.
They are doing it right at this very moment.
Here it is:
Private Fuel Storage Targets High-Level Radioactive Waste Dump at Skull Valley Goshute Indian Reservation, Utah
The tiny Skull Valley Band of Goshute Indians Reservation in Utah is targeted for a very big nuclear waste dump. Private Fuel Storage (PFS), a limited liability corporation representing eight powerful nuclear utilities, wants to “temporarily” store 40,000 tons of commercial high-level radioactive waste (about 80% of the commercial irradiated nuclear fuel in the U.S. as of the end of 2004) next to the two-dozen tribal members who live on the small reservation. The PFS proposal is the latest in a long tradition of targeting Native American communities for such dumps.
yugung:
Your posts are riddled with logical fallacies. We are talking about China, right? Instead of saying, “yes, we have problems, you say “look over there and see what THEY ARE doing.” Nothing like a nice case of ad hominem to make yourself lose credibility. This is why Chinese people are not good at debate. Too busy pointing fingers and not spending enough time sticking to the facts.
I am unimpressed with your googled sources. Show me some real information. I can show you the toxic waste dumping in the city I live in if you want, and this is 2008, not some aforementioned date. Matter of fact, nearly the entirety of Guangdong is a toxic waste dump. At least the “Whites” as you put it, had common sense enough not to LIVE among the toxic waste.
Get a life.
Mydnight said: Your posts are riddled with logical fallacies. We are talking about China, right? Instead of saying, “yes, we have problems, you say “look over there and see what THEY ARE doing.” Nothing like a nice case of ad hominem to make yourself lose credibility. This is why Chinese people are not good at debate. Too busy pointing fingers and not spending enough time sticking to the facts.
Yugung:
The track record of the people doing the dating and having sex is relevant to this discussion. How can we talk about culture and traditions with out first dwell on the history and past practices? It has nothing to do with whether Chinese people are goood or no good at debate.
I agree that pollution and nuclear waste are not irrelevant to this topic, but since u ve started it I thought we all can learn something.
No idea why you jumped out and said that….suddently -_-
the comments were pretty good before yours
sorry, the last post was a mistake…it is actually for yugung but i put the name in the wrong place…
“No idea why you jumped out and said that….suddently -_-
the comments were pretty good before yours”
@Lana
My dear girl, I really feel for you, your story is very similar to what is happening in my family. My bf´s brother brought a chinese girlfriend back to England with him. Now she lives with his family where she was very warmly welcomed.
She has told us weird stories about her own family to create an image of a poor child that had no support and love from her own family. There were other things as well. First they wouldn´t agree with her relationship with a foreigner. Then suddenly she told them about him and they were fine about it. They apparently even paid for her studies and let her go with this foreign man (who at the begining wasn´t good enough for their only daughter…no job, young age, red in the face? wtf?) to England without meeting him once. She received all the support one can dream about from my bf´s family, free accomodation, food, clothes loads and loads of presents from all of us. We all tried to make her feel home and were friendly and helpful to her. But as you described it, she didn´t have a job for a very long time even though she had a lot of free time, no housework or any kind of contribution to the family life. She treats the house like a hotel room. Sometimes doesn´t say hello to us, never considers anybody else before her own needs. The only thing she does is an occasional cooking but not for everyone only herself sometimes if in a good mood…lets you have a tinny bit to try. When I tried to point it out in a joky kind of way I became an enemy. I have never met anybody so lasy, crafty, selfish, arrogant, two faced and cold in my life. She very clearly uses everybody and has changed the atmosphere in our home. I want to be as far as possible from somebody like her. I think the only reason, why she hasn´t been as rude as your brother´s gf is the fact that she is living in the parent´s house and can´t do that just yet. If she was a little bit more sure about her position, in my opinion, we would see a complete different dimension of her personality. She says things and complaints secretly on her website already anyway. The stuff that´s in her head is outrages!
So, lets just hope that my and your experience doesn´t reflect the way a lot of chinese women are. I really hope that mainly there are nice genuine girls. Good luck, hope you´ll find your way back to your brother. It is a horrible situation. He needs to stop being stupid and see the real “beauty” of his woman.
Barbara,
My heart goes out to you and your family in dealing with this. Yes, it is so similar. She was on Facebook saying things about me to a friend of MINE who she told me is also a friend of her’s. (They met twice and my friend was, for my brother’s sake, being kind…as we all were). She told me who had just retired if I was concerned about money to GET A JOB or ask my brother for money, and told me she didn’t want to look at me because I was WHINING about my retirement. This girl, doing nothing, riding on my brother’s money tells me who just finished working for 40 years to get a job. I had made sure to have a Xmas gift for her when she came. I introduced her to my family…took her around and brought people to my house to meet her. I feel he will marry her in December before her visa expires. My opinion is that is when he will really “meet” her. By that I mean her real face will show and her demands will increase as well as his debts. Oh well, what are we to do? It’s his life, he’s 58, she’s 27 and no doubt there will be children. In his mind he’s standing beside the woman he loves, which would be the right way if everything was aboveboard with her. It must be nice to know you need no money, no job, no housework, no cooking, no providing of information about yourself or your family, and all the clothing you want, all the food you want and that your influence is more powerful than the family’s. My brother is a fool. I believe you have it right that if she was in his house she would be more powerful than she is in his parents house. But I don’t believe Chinese or Hong Kong girls are like this. I think you and I only found the two young women who are calculating their future in an unkind way. And I think our men are giving our countries a terrible example to the people of China and Hong Kong with their travels to find women much younger. I believe beautiful relationships have come from these meetings though. Our stories only show the seedy side, the painful side. My brother’s actions embarrass me. He says he doesn’t want a Canadian wife. Fine. But please choose someone who actually will be a wife and who is open about her family and is so pleased to have him that she wants to share him with her family and friends too. Let her show the same pride in him he shows in her. That’s all I wanted.
I need to ask what the expectations are from Chinese/Hong Kong parents of their adult daughters? Is Hong Kong culture that much different than mainland China? Do parents want to know the people..i.e. foreigners…who take their girl to another country? Do they even care? Is parental expectation that their adult children….boy or girl…take care of them? Would they approve of a MUCH older foreign man if they felt he could give their daughter a healthy financial living? Would they be demanding to meet him before he takes their girl away? Would their expectation be that the girl send for them to live in the new country? I’m accused of not knowing the culture, and I accept that as truth. So…I want to know.
Chinese girls are calculated about snaring foreign men for $$$. I have a friend who is “married” to a chinese girl and he just sent in papers stating that he will provide for her \ and Her daughter financially if they divorce. I’m sorry…..just because your from another country doesn’t mean you get special rights in divorce. IMO if a divorce ensues the citizen by marriage should have 30 days after the divorce to leave the country. My friend is also afraid the minute those papers are notarized she is gone and so is his bank account ! I do not doubt that will happen…honesty isn’t highly admired.
c’mon, really. don’t play out all these chinese girls to be so innocent. i live in china also– i know the realities. don’t believe it? check this out:
Special Sexy Massage Service In Chengdu，Sichuan PR.China
Hi everybody!
If you are a traveler and gonna to come to Chengdu ,China or you are a settler in Chengdu,Sichuan province.I””m your best choice…Need some relax after tired life? This is me:A sweety Chinese young girl,slim,charming and white…
I””m provide Chinese massage, fullbody oil massage and exquisite aroma massages.Your skin will feel silky,luxurious and very subtle.
This massage is skilled and top class.It truly rejuvenates your body,mind and soul.It gives reassurance,warmth,pleasure,comfort renewed energy.
I””m interested in coming to your hotel or apartment.
I””m your best choice.Interested?
Send me email right now: peachcd@126.com
Dear Sir:
I have been 19 years old .I never had any real sex experience and I’m still a virgin,with silky pearl-like skin and sexy figure
We only serve top business persons who’s capable to pay.
Good thing always accompany with “good” price,therefore,as a virgin,if you eager to get my service you have to pay for the equivalent value————US$ 980 for 18 hrs service.I have well prepared phycologically.As you know quality service always accompany together with quality price.
My sister and me are colledge students without much sex experience and we are pure and young.We devote the most beautiful age to you and if you take your health into serious consideration and if you don’t wanna infect any sexual transmitted disease by girl,the expensive price is certainly worthwhile.
Think it over ,consider whether or not you are capable to pay and then make your wise decision and choice.
Here I attached my photo and would you please make a brief introduction about yourself,eg.age,weight,build and profession and attach your photo as well.
In addition,to make a firm reservation, when you arrive in China would you please put certain deposit to my account at China Construction bank,it will not cost you so much,only 10–50 USD is enough to prove your sincerety.
Ok,I’m afraid I have spoken so much.Now, think it over,Sir.
If you have any other question,please don’t hesitate to send requiry to me .
Sincerely yours
Sally
PS;Since the picture is too big,I have to cut part of it to send to u.As to the phone number,would u please contact Charlie–my brother–a good guy with not bad oral English since my English level is not ideal.
The phone number is ：SEND BY E-MAIL。
Regards
http://www.jinti.com/458/91/123052.htm
Every girl is different to others, you try, then you will understand.
And, as i know, most of us are looking for true love, a family, a home, a place that you can hide when we get hurt.
You never wanted that?
Just be happy and having a long life with a girl that you love?
It’s…just…the thing that we are looking for is so simple, but getting it is hard.
Anyways…welcome to China.
Get it?
I’ll give it to you baby… and hard too!
No, seriously, you do have a (very basic, but true) point about each individual case, person, relationship needing to be encountered and judged on its own merits. I would just like to reiterate the point I tried to make a while back about the importance of being critical of our own judgements, biases, motivations etc, when approaching topics that we are invested in. See my post above on July 4th that begins ‘Speaking from the experience of living with…’ where I was clearly on a bad day… but nevertheless the main point still stands. And I think there might well be a sense in which the Chinese, generally speaking, are less able to be reflexive (self-critical) when it comes to making ‘moral’ judgements about matters involving others in which they themselves are intimately invested. And I think that might be the crux of the problem here. ‘Morality’ in China, at least in its superficial articulation, is so absolute, black and white, good or bad; so defined by your own position; so uncritical. As Jesus said: ‘Look first to the plank in your own eye… judge not lest ye be judged yourself’ etc. Western people, by contrast, like me, tend to be so battered by ‘Christian’ guilt, and increasingly so cynical with the Postmodern realisation that morality is made and not set, that they don’t know what to believe in.
But if you’ve already realised that ‘getting it is hard’, you’ve probably made some progress. I sincerely wish you luck in accidentally stumbling upon what you’re really looking for one day. Look too hard and you might miss it, because love inhabits the same place as hate, and hate love. All foreigners who ‘like’ China, and most married people I suspect, have come to understand that.
Wel.l..what ever you say…I am a girl who believes in love.
Love is an apple, but God has sut it in half and throw to two different places.
The probability of every each id found by the right half is:0.
You know what? I believe there is fate, there is a right half waiting foe me somewhere in this world.
I have been waiting.
I know he is coming to me soon.
Just feel it this way.
I am watching.
And i like the number “6″
Don’t take 66 way guys.
If there’s two halves how can the probability of them finding each other be zero?
And then you suddenly become more positive… he’s coming.. I can feel it etc. Good stuff!
But then you get a bit weird and appear to make a statement that is almost threatening. What are watching, and what is this ’six’ stuff about?
Hahaha just the number.
6 is my lucky number.
It says : 0.
But i believe it’s not.
It’s easy to read CHinese or English,
But, it’s hard read read hearts.
Do you feel the same way?
Oh damn !
I wish i was not CHinese sometimes when i am writing with my English . hehe
Hmmmmmmmmm
I am happy i am speaking better than writing……
How can i show you?
^_^
Sorry, you lost me there.
But nevermind.
You sound like you’d be a really good shag.
I feel the same way.
x
show me?
You wanna meet up?
Hmmmmmmmm
I dunno……
I wish i could post a voice message here with my saying: Hello? How are y?
That would be fun hah?
Well , when you do know, let me know.
Cheers.
lol
Thanks. You are in Shanghai right?
No, but I can be quite easily.
I am alerted to any message to this discussion page, so you can let me know when you figure it out easily.
Which reminds me, the other users are unlikely to be happy with lots and lots of little emails detailing our personal discussion, so perhaps we should continue the discussion somewhere else?
And, to Vance!
I appreciate that you were writing like this: “Unfortunately, I have seen too many Chinese girls used and deeply hurt by foreign men which is what prompted me to write this post. ”
You know, even you are having a girl from your country, from your village or your city, that love life will be still hard.
But anways, i think you find the right girl, you fit each other so much, and both try hard to live this life ,…….there will always be preoblems in our life, but we will work it out , right?
hmmm
where can we go? maybe i should add you somewhere….
I feel like……………….
you are gonna be a great firend.
hehehe
PLUS: those dots ….. means i was thinking while i was writing.
hm………………………
lol
Mark,found the way.
@Asyro and Mark,
You are more than welcome to use the website of a new sponsor to communicate. It’s completely free. You just have to sign up.
http://www.ChatAboutChina.com
Very simple to use. Good luck !
How about advice for us girls who date Chinese guys when we’re there? I have now married a Chinese man– we’re going through the immigration process. I could have really benefitted by learning a few things about family expectations– but his family really is very good to me. However, it’s unlikely that I’d hear anything even if they didn’t like something. i don’t know if this is true in all families where the son will marry (a foreign girl) or if it’s just particular to his family. Now we’re expecting our first child and I’m still not sure of the social stuff…except that the family members who know so far are wanting to buy something special for the baby– and that 100 days is a special age for babies… that’s all I know :0
There are plenty of foreign (American in this case) girls who date Chinese guys. It’d be helpful to hear it from this perspective too.
When my (then boyfriend) took me to his parents’ home– yes, he was serious about marrying me for sure…so I (guess?) that one goes both ways? He proposed to me outside his parents’ back farm area. !
Later, when we went back inside, everyone knew the good news….then they all brought out more food and then started talking about the plans– and how to do it. Totally different than my experiences of being (or not being) received by an American guy’s family.
@ssupath,
Thanks for sharing! Truth be told, I have never met foreign lady who was dating a Chinese man which is why I didn’t include any thoughts about that in the above article. It sounds like you have had a really good experience.
If you ever had the chance to write a brief article about foreign women dating/marrying Chinese men, we would be happy to feature it here on TeachAbroadChina.com. And congrats on the baby!
Sorry but I find this hard to believe. I searched google and couldn’t find a single official news item about someone being deported for “sleeping with too many girls” or anything even remotely similar. They deport people who they perceive as political opponents, or are of tibetean descent.
I think it’s highly unlikely to be deported purely for promiscousness. If you don’t do anything stupid, and don’t get involved in politics I’d say the chance of that converges toward zero. Especially since the police and government are interested in prostitution as well. Promiscous foreigners also make great scapegoats to divert attention from government issues.
Deporting them would be against their interest both financially and politically. Please show me official evidence (or at least a major news site) of a westerner being deported solely for careless sex.
Another thing to consider. If there was any considerable risk in such behaviour, would it be so prevalent even today? I don’t think so many foreigners would be that stupid, if the government wanted to crack down on them I’m sure everyone would have noticed that.
CORRECT ME if im wrong but from what I’ve seen on google: Tibeaten protestors, bloggers, activists deported: 30 000 hits Western People deported for sex: 0 hits
Can you at least tell me what was wrong in my post? Why did you delete it? This kind of censure is like Chinese government at it’s worst
@Dragon,
No censorship. First time comments are moderated. Every once in a while I am away from the computer for a few days. Sorry for the delay.
RV
Its possible the two guys gangbanged a local village leader’s daughter or promise her marriage or offended some govt offical. Stop trying to deviate from the topic Dragon. Go take your activists propaganda somewhere else.
I think the conversation is devolving from something serious to using naughty little words for a thrill.
The problem is that western men and women don’t like to have sex with each other. They don’t express love or nice feelings to each other. Their parents didn’t provide enough love and affection.
The result is that westerners like the attention that a Chinese girl will give them.
If you are having sex with Chinese girls, don’t brag about it. Don’t tell anybody. Try to keep it a secret. I haven’t lived in mainland China, but in some Asian countries, some people have sex a lot but they don’t talk about it a lot.
A friend of mine was teaching English in another nearby country. A national of that country said that you should not have sex until you are married. The national also said that you only have about 12 squirts(ejaculations) in your life. The national also said that sex would make you weak. So the moral of this is that you should not discuss sex with someone who is as conservative as that national. The national caused trouble for the foreign English teacher. The English teacher left the country.
Also, a jealous girl caused trouble for the English teacher, even though the girl had sex with other men also.