The China Teaching Web

“But even if you do not believe the video, what about the thousands of refugees who cross the border every year? “

Several reasons:

1. The media takes big part there. It describes the life of Tibet Exile as freedom and paradise and encourage the people to cross the border.

2. Dalai is the religion spiritual leader, Tibetan admires him and is eager to worship him

3. Someone did the wrong things to avoid punishment

Someone wants to make more money abroad

If Dalai is there and Media broadcasts like that, it's no surprise that there are so many people crossing border. It can not prove whether Tibetan life is good or not.

Jason Ding said:

“in simple words, they feed you with poisonous information lies and call it freedom of information. Freedom is a very loose word - freedom to receive objective truthful information or freedom to receive complete falsehood? Western press are organised by US Government a lot worse than CCTV”

Lee,

Thanks. I've learned this truth through these 20years. We were brainwashed within my childhood. Once into university, we admired the western freedom and we requested for democracy in 1986, 1989. Now after 20years with more understanding of western media, we knew this truth. Not just me, I think most of Chinese, especially oversea Chinese at my age, shared with me this experience.

Jason Ding,

On poisonous information, you read in this forum such rubbish……” India was also part of UN deployment to Korea - they provided non- combat services” History can be re-written and inventions added in?

I found this information on Wikipedia page on the Korean War

“On November 29, 1952, U.S. President-elect Dwight D. Eisenhower fulfilled a campaign promise by going to Korea to find out what could be done to end the conflict. With the UN's acceptance of India’s proposal for a Korean armistice, a cease-fire was established on July 27, 1953,”

The truth is that INDIA WAS NOT PART OF A UN DEPLOYMENT AND… the caption alleging India's involvement of “….they provided non-combat services” is someone's farting of lies in this forum as usual of him,

The only truth about india's involvement is that it is a non-aligned nation - neutral on Korean War and India played a constructive role to propose an armistice and a ceasefire. India DID not play a billigerent role in any shape or form in the Korean War.

I guess for this purveyor of lies might even say, Malaysia, Singapore must be also part of UN deployment as part of the UN deployment in Korea - also in non-combat service. Both were not independent states and not part of UN at that point in thime. So the Malaysians and Singaporeans must be laughing at this hypocritical lies as their contribution of “non-combat' deployment to Korea, Huh?????

What a serial liar and idiot of truth !!!

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Jason Ding said:

“in simple words, they feed you with poisonous information lies and call it freedom of information. Freedom is a very loose word - freedom to receive objective truthful information or freedom to receive complete falsehood? Western press are organised by US Government a lot worse than CCTV”

Lee,

Thanks. I've learned this truth through these 20years. We were brainwashed within my childhood. Once into university, we admired the western freedom and we requested for democracy in 1986, 1989. Now after 20years with more understanding of western media, we knew this truth. Not just me, I think most of Chinese, especially oversea Chinese at my age, shared with me this experience.

Jason Ding,

I have something to share with you and this forum. There is an interesting website on how complete lies can be told as if they are truth by twisting of facts, logic and inferences which you will find a lot in wstern media and those that are hell-bent on lying in public forums like this. It is the concept of “logical fallacy” read this link

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/

don't be fooled or mislead by compulsive liars and hypocrites

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@Jason -

“1. The
media takes big part there. It describes the life of Tibet Exile as freedom and
paradise and encourage the people to cross the border.”

Does the media
accessible in Tibet do this?

“2. Dalai
is the religion spiritual leader, Tibetan admires him and is eager to worship
him”

If this is true
then do you think describing him as “a wolf in monk's robes” as well
as many other things is likely to endear the Chinese leadership to the Tibet
population? Do you think it is wise to criminalise even the possession of a
photograph of the man?

“3.
Someone did the wrong things to avoid punishment”

Possibly, but
it is hard to imagine what 'wrong things' could have been done by the children
being shot at in the video, and, at least according to the refugees themselves,
if they have commited crimes they are usually political ones.

As for getting
rich, this is also a possibility - but India would be a strange place to go to
if that was your aim.

Talks with the
Dalai Lama are necessary, but to be frank I think both sides are already quite
familiar with the other side's demands. New talks would be pointless unless
there is a willingness to make some concessions - which concessions should be
made by both sides?

“1. China need to
regulate his propaganda movement abroad to introduce the real tibet. To let the
world know what the exact Tibet is. I think this is very hard”

People in the west
have had access to the Chinese government’s version of things for a very long
time, but people simply don’t believe it because a) it is so one-sided as to
put off anyone who doesn’t already agree with it , and b) it doesn’t
agree with what the Tibetans themselves say.

“2. Media should be
justice, problems exist everywhere, it the problem is exaggerated”

Problems do exist
everywhere, but countries that are involved in open ethnic conflict are rarely
chosen to host the Olympic games – do you think there would be such a focus on
these riots if it were not for this?

“Another worry is spy
acting as journalist.”

In which case they
should throw out all western journalists, and for that matter all foreign
nationals, as we could all be potential spies.

People in the
west sympathise with the Tibetans a lot more than they sympathise with the
Chinese government, and many confuse the government and the people - this is a
pity.

@Lee –

“Western press are
organised by US Government a lot worse than CCTV”

And the Indian press?
And the South African press? And Al-Jazeera? Because none of the major news
sources in any part of the free world outside China decided to adopt the
Chinese line that Tibet had ‘always’ been part of China and that the riots are
the result of a plot to ‘hijack’ the Olympics by ‘the Dalai clique’ – although
all of them did report that this was the Chinese government’s position.

What you have there
is an example of people who work or have worked for defence contractors not
declaring an interest when giving their so-called ‘expert’ advice – but do
these people control opinion? No, they merely influence it in an underhand way,
and I’m very glad the media has exposed what was going on – or are you saying
that the US government has ‘organised’ this story as well? As for the US
government having influence on the press outside the US – please! The press
here in the UK spends 90% of its time criticising the current US government, in
fact much more time is spent criticising the US government than is spent
criticising the CCP. The Guardian, to take one example, often publishes
cartoons portraying George Bush as an ignorant monkey, and his government as
blood-soaked murderers – are you saying that they are doing this on orders from
the US government?

Lee, I still don’t
know why you are carrying on about the Freedom of Information Act. Yes, as I’ve
said before, the decision can be made to keep documents secret, or to remove
parts of documents that are released, but the full documents will still
be made available after 30 years under the 30 year rule. It is strange to note
that the link you give doesn’t work and if you click it simply gives a ‘404
page not found’ message – could you please provide the real link?

As for India’s
involvement – read “The Korean War” by Max Hastings, they offered transport
aircraft and a field hospital in 1950 - why should the Indian’s proposal of an
armistice be proof that they were never involved? Once again you are missing
the point, and it is instructive to see that having been proved completely
wrong with your ‘India was a member of NAM and so couldn’t have etc.’ theory,
you are now trying to argue things which have nothing to do with the issue at
hand.

“I guess for this
purveyor of lies might even say, Malaysia, Singapore must be also part of UN
deployment as part of the UN deployment in Korea - also in non-combat service.
Both were not independent states and not part of UN at that point in thime. So
the Malaysians and Singaporeans must be laughing at this hypocritical lies as
their contribution of “non-combat' deployment to Korea, Huh?????”

Okay, let me see,
here you imagine something that you think I might say, then try to disprove it
– why are you arguing with yourself like this? Schizophrenia seems to have you
in its grasp.

And you still haven’t
said what policies you would suggest to prevent riots happening again.

@Lee,

By using your method, I've finally got it.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKIT/2008/EA_2007_0047.html

That's we could not understand well that those countries haven't sovled their problems of freedom and democracy. And still using these “Hammers” on the other countries.

@Foarp,
1. There is radio of “Tibet Exile”, broadcasting everyday to Tibetan people, describing how wonderful life in the Tibet Exile's life in India with freedom and with Dalai. And blame the central government in the exaggerated method. It takes effect on the refugee issues.

2. Although Dalai is spiritual leader, at current status, central government and Dalai are still on the opposite side in the open area. Dalai blamed so severely on central government and wanna independent. It's understandable that central government did such kind of thing.

I remembered that before Iraq War, since France blamed the US to declare Iraq War, after the war, US didn't give France the right on the bid as punishment. These 2 countries are even friends. Chinese government just doesn't allow to hang up portrait, that's it.
If Dalai stopped to slander central government. Things will change.
“a wolf in monk' robes” just means he has the bad idea for independence.
But what Dalai blamed the central government?
1. 1million Massacre
2. Culture Genocide

What he blamed has been almost totally accepted by Western sociaty.
What is more harmful?

3. We heard someone did crime and ran to there.
I don't know exactly what's the border policy of illegal crossing the border. But I think shooting should not be allowed in this case.

For rich, to go to India or Nepal is not good. But to those who haven't been there don't know the truth.

I think Dalai should concede to some extent. TAR is exact the region that he ruled 50 years ago. The other places have been already administrated by other provinces. And except Tibet, there are many other ethnics living there for centuries. Let them leave those area is not feasible. But I wish they could make some progress to maximum the benefit of the whole Tibetan people. Personally I welcome Dalai to go back to Tibet.

“In which case they should throw out all western journalists, and for that matter all foreign
nationals, as we could all be potential spies.”
I think that's the key point. If there is no agent like CIA, Chinese may open more quickly. During 50s, Chinese government got a lesson that CIA was behind Tibet uprising. I guess that's the reason they are still very cautious on opening to West media and Westerners. But I'm sure with the more opening, Tibet will be more open to Westerners. That's the inevitable trends.

“Jason, those hypocrtical activists in the West will always and forever complain and condemn China when their own backyard has a lot more garbage, stench and flies. As the confucious wisdom says ” broken rotten eggs will naturally attract flies” Is this not correct? These activists don't even know that their rotten broken eggs are foul with disgusting smell.”

I think most of Chinese totally agree with you.

Hypocrisy behavior should really be condemned by all of people in the world. But we have seen this really happened in this world. I like the author Goldstein who did so much research on Tibet history and talk in a book. Unlike those other organization which knows nothing or few about Tibet but shouting out “Democracy” and “Human Rights”.

Jason Ding said:

“Jason, those hypocrtical activists in the West will always and forever complain and condemn China when their own backyard has a lot more garbage, stench and flies. As the confucious wisdom says ” broken rotten eggs will naturally attract flies” Is this not correct? These activists don't even know that their rotten broken eggs are foul with disgusting smell.”

I think most of Chinese totally agree with you.

Hypocrisy behavior should really be condemned by all of people in the world. But we have seen this really happened in this world. I like the author Goldstein who did so much research on Tibet history and talk in a book. Unlike those other organization which knows nothing or few about Tibet but shouting out “Democracy” and “Human Rights”.

---

Jason Ding, you know what is so badly wrong with democracy - abuse of rights, morals, information to own advantage and at the expense, exclusion and destruction of others. You see that in the political world. Political democracies had the uncanny ability to throw up men and women of the lowest dubious disposition vying for, occupying the highest public office and causing untold damage and destruction to humanity in consequences. You have Hillary Rodham Clinton, a compulsive liar, seeking nomination to stand as the Democrat's Presidential nominee in the November US election and yet can win 55% of the votes in Pennsylvaniia in the primary. It would seems to me that integrity and honesty has no value in public office in US and yet they lecture China on the morality of some vaguely self-righteous claims of human rights abuse there. And this weekend, she turned to china bashing to pandering for votes in Indiana.

She alleged…”.This country manipulates its currency to our disadvantage, they engage in broad-based intellectual property theft, industrial espionage” ….. strangely enough US Treasury Secretary already denied publicly that China is NOT engaged in currency manipulation. And you know in China that both foreigners living in China and tourist there alike bought pirated DVDs (and yet the same bunch of crooks condemned China for intellectual property rights violation). Worse still, Chinese nationals had to pay for entry fees to visit Western musuem to enjoy their own cultural relics, artifacts that European colonialists stole from China. Does China stole western countries' priceless historical artifacts, display them in their musuem and demand foreign tourists visiting China's museum to pay exorbitant entry fee???

This is the kind of behaviour that earns the contempt of Chinese and fair-minded people around the world including many in the West - complete hippocrisy and immorality as if democracy and copyrights is such a saintly virtue that only China violates. As I said before in this forum, it is to me as ugly of truth as a highly experienced prostitute claiming to be a virgin.

Richard Baum, a political science professor at the Centre for Chinese Studies at UCLA, resigned as Hillary Rodham Clinton's adviser because of what he called “gratuitous China bashing” and “grossly misguided accusations”.

Democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, intellectual property violations claims of westerners are simply 'smelly rotten broken eggs” of grossly misguided accusations” levelled at China. And in the words of Professor Bau, he said in an email …“As a lifelong Democrat, it saddens me that Senator Clinton has chosen to take the low road in her effort to gain our party's presidential nomination. This shows clearly that in democracy of freedom to do whatever politicians like, there would not be just a few who would bent low over lower than the dignity of prostitutes just to get marginal votes.

Jason Ding, ask yourself this question, iis the world safer for the next generation and generations to come IF DEMOCRACY THROW UP THIS QUALITY OF POLITICIANS INTO PUBLIC OFFICE? I don't think in many eastern cultures, such politicians who degraded themselves on the election platform stage with such hypocritical lies caught out, would still be around on the public stage or not remove from his political party's membership. It is too offensive of immorality and culturally too offensive to accept. If China has such politicians, I am sure the CCP would have boot them out long ago because their continued presence endangered the legitimacy of the CCP's public trust and loyalty. Don't you agree with me, Jason Ding?

Jason Ding said:

“Jason, those hypocrtical activists in the West will always and forever complain and condemn China when their own backyard has a lot more garbage, stench and flies. As the confucious wisdom says ” broken rotten eggs will naturally attract flies” Is this not correct? These activists don't even know that their rotten broken eggs are foul with disgusting smell.”

I think most of Chinese totally agree with you.

Hypocrisy behavior should really be condemned by all of people in the world. But we have seen this really happened in this world. I like the author Goldstein who did so much research on Tibet history and talk in a book. Unlike those other organization which knows nothing or few about Tibet but shouting out “Democracy” and “Human Rights”.

---

Jason Ding, you saw this hypocritical comment in this forum

“COMPLETELY EXTERMINATED ENTIRE TRIBES OF ABORIGINES FROM THE ISLAND OF TASMANIA.”

More than 100 years ago now, and the government has issued an official apology, not that such facts matter to you, obviously.

obviously that compulsive liar is uncomfortable about confrong the truth . And what is the truth?? IT IS HYPOCRISY FOR AUSTRALIA 'S PM TO LECTURE CHINA ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN PEKING UNIVERSITY IN APRIL 2008 when it wiped out all aboriginal tribes from Tasmania - it is like extinct dinosaurs. An apology justified genocide and give them a right to lecture others on human rights and made demand on others? If China give Tibet to Tibetans, the Tibetans still got historyand cultures but if Australia gives back Tasmania, the ghost cannot reclaim history and culture. Whose wrong is more perverse, cruel of history and irretrievably to restitution - China or Australia, ask the world, lying compulsive screzophrenic!!!! Jason, I am sure you and the world agree with me, Australia HAS NO MORAL PLATFORM TO LECTURE OR ANY OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD on human rights.

And this hypocritical forumite even says….”not that facts matters to me, obviously” - how more hypocritical and lying can his behavior crawl more lowly like a dog on the street?? Of course it matter to me, i value humanity. Since this low lying cockroach claims democracy, freedom of speech and all that rubbish, why does his concern for humanity disappear suddenly? Is it because the extinct dinosaurs being aborigines is black or his humanity race-dependent or ethnicity dependent? This is the kind of closet race prejudice which zealots like him used to vilify China and those who do not subscribe to their hypocritical behaviours… like buying sex and condem prostitution, bying pirated DVD and condemned intellectual property rights violation, condeming dicatorship in China but suppressing deceptions in their own court of law to cover up their sinful design of war and causing over a million Iraqi deaths whhich the whole world knows and denying that so few died. An din Iraq, they destroyed water supply, electricity, hospitals, homes to make basic living conditions almost impossible and yet the invaders shouts human rights on the world stage……..You know, Jason, I am getting close to the point of belieiving these hypocrites if they say their excrements (Da Pien) smell and taste better than the rest of the world which i am sure they will boast of. But if they come round and tell me the sun rises in the east and set in the west, the rest of us living on this planet must retort back to them this - Let me wake up tommmorrow to see if it really does” ( just in case you lied and you inescapabably always do!!!!!”