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Why Talking about Politics in China is a Bad Idea
Written by Robert Vance on April 21, 2008 – 2:35 amThe title of this article is a little misleading. I know that you are going to talk about politics in China. Every foreign teacher does; it’s inevitable. Your students will want to talk about politics during social talk. Your friends will want to talk about politics at dinner. You can talk about politics; it is not against the law. But before you ‘tread those dangerous waters,’ you need to be aware of some simple facts about how Chinese people view their political world.
- –When your students discuss politics with you, most of them are not giving you an opinion that they have formed by themselves. They are repeating to you what they have been fed by the Chinese government/media their whole lives. Expect to hear the same political ideology repeated over and over again. Trying to get through their ideology is like attempting to drive a broom handle through a brick wall.
- –Chinese people see China as their ‘mother.’ A student explained to me recently that “we can only trust our Chinese government because it has taken such good care of us.” She went on to tell me that without the government, the Chinese people would be completely destitute. She and other friends of mine talk about the Chinese government in a very ‘caring and adoring’ manner. In other words, if you are saying bad things about the Chinese government, it is as if you are insulting every single Chinese person’s mother.
- –Any information that you provide for your friends or students that come from sources other than the Chinese government will be instantly rejected as a fabrication and distortion of the truth. Most people in China do not seek other sources of information because they are told that information from the ‘West’ cannot be trusted. You may be well armed with information from a variety of places
- –Chinese people are easily offended by political comments directed at their government. When you are making negative statements about their government they will react as if the comments are being made about them. Whatever you do, make sure that you explain that your comments about their government do not reflect your feelings about the people.
It really is better to avoid discussing politics in your ESL classes because you never know who might be listening. Teachers have been reprimanded and even dismissed for talking about political issues such as Taiwan and Tibet. You would probably do well to avoid these topics altogether. It is wiser to discuss politics with close friends who can handle your opinion.
Use common sense and always respect Chinese culture. If you have to make political comments to your friends or students, make sure that you do not make them in an inflammatory manner. Always listen to what they are saying and engage them in a conversation that leaves everyone feeling like they learned something afterwards. It is also important to always observe closely how your students and friends are reacting and be ready to change subjects if necessary. It is to be hoped that in the future the political discourse in China will be more open, but until then, you need to use a great measure of sensitivity when broaching the topic of politics and government in China.
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It seems to depend on where and with whom you talk politics. A friend of mine who has stayed in China for years says that he avoids talking politics at work and with colleagues, but for instance did discuss politics with a Chinese friend who is well connected, not afraid of speaking his mind, but who is also nationalistic. This has included several weeks where they didn’t talk at all, except for Hello and Goodbye, as the Chinese chose to “boycott” him, but then came up with politics himself once again.
Above all, you probably shouldn’t seek opportunities for talking politics yourself as a foreigner. If Chinese people do, and find out that you are as serious about your ideals, as they are about theirs, it MIGHT lead to a reasonable dialogue over time.
Of course, it is inevitable to discuss politics once you TEACH politics, like Daniel A. Bell does or did in Beijing:
http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=418
What you write here is SO true. Good work.
Any information that you provide for your friends or students that come from sources other than the CNN/BBC(GOD knows how they MAKE news) will be instantly rejected as a fabrication and distortion of the truth. Most people in Westen do not seek other sources of information because they are told that information from the ‘Communist’ cannot be trusted. You may be well armed with information from a variety of places
-SO True.GOOD WORK
Are you teaching in elementary school?
I see,you’ve been through something in China.
A lot of people in China listen to CNN or Voa on the air,do you know this ?
1840AD,the UK invaded China for China refusing UK’s opium bussiness in China.
1856AD，UK and France invaded China again and burned the Summer Palace.
1884AD,France started a war with China.
1894AD,Japan started a war with Chin.
1900AD,Eight Military alliance including UK,Russia,Japan,France,Germany,USA,Italy,Austria invaded China.
1933-1945AD,Anti-Japanese War
1945-1949AD,Civil War
1949-1966AD,Development for a short time..
1966-1976AD,ten years of lost..
1978AD,we started our new day..
Now…So many westen people do not know China,still doubting about China,denying the progress it has made..
Have you ever though of why these happened?
More than 100years ago,You Western people came to invade ,torture,insult us,after that ,you snatched every penny we had.
Finally we built up a new world that makes our lives much better than ever in history,you come again,cursing that the world which you don’t know at all is evil.
Can you make sure ,for the sake of your god,that what you hear from your Cnn or your other western media may not be truth.
I don’t know the way you are thinking,so you can not imagin the way the Chinese are thinking,please don’t ignore their thougts,they are not stupid,they have their own thoughts as you do.
I make this comment because I have to tell you,If you want to be a real friend of Chinese people,you have to make friends with him or her heart to heart,I don’t if you are making friends the way we do,but If not heart to heart ,you will not make real friends in our country and you will never have a chance to know a real China.
I wish you a good life in China..
Hello Winter. This is Robert Vance. I appreciate your detailed comments on my blog. I do know that some people in China watch CNN and listen to VOA but I don’t believe that there are many. I’m happy that you have decided to seek information from outside sources. I rarely watch CNN or listen to the BBC. Those channels also say bad things about our American government. Did you know that? The point is, I try to seek information from more than once source.
For me, true friends in China are people who will listen to my opinion without insulting me. I will also listen to them and not be offended if they say something against my government. After all, I am not my government and my government is not me. I am a separate entity.
Thank you again for commenting. I appreciate that you did it in a civil way instead of calling me names like so many others. I am always open minded and willing change my attitudes if I find that I have an error in thinking. I also wish you a good life in China and hope to hear again from you soon.
Robert,
This is exactly why you are saying that “talking about politics in China is a bad idea”
People has the every right to be angry about the medias and US/Paris government stances. At least this anger draw more attentions, and more people may know that there are stories on the other side. This is the beginning of communication. And western should get used to it, there are other value systems other than western.
The recent movement of oversea Chinese does not only include oversea young Chinese students, there are many people who live abroad for many years. They are not “biased” by any CCP’s news agent, they access the western news freely, but they are angry about the biased media report too.
I doubt if there were many oversee Iraqis as Chinese, who could raise up to against media propaganda, many lives can be saved. There are some people like you, who can observe the world with own eye, but I don;t think that you are the one of majority. Most US rednecks or even white collars do not care about the outside world (actually politics), they will not waste time to seek “truth”. How much difference it make that a few Chinese die in Lhasha or not? The Chinese people and government are the easy alibi for many problems, “chinks and thugs” right?
with regards
Hi Robert ,this is Winter.thank you for your writing back,I appreciate that.As you know,there are some people in China watching foreign Channels or listening to them on the air. And as you can see from the up-to-the-minute news,that China now has the most netizen in the world,and of course we can seek information from all around the world like CNN,BBC,etc.if we want,we are not brainwashed(so many of you are describing us using this word and just deprive our right of speaking),we listen,we learn from different sources around the world,and we think in our way(the way maybe not be accepted by you).Every government has its own problems,so does the Chinese government,so does the US government.The point is ,the Chinese government(though it is a government established by CCP which you do not think well)have made a great progress that enrich the majority of our population,we appreciate the great progress it bring to us.
I wish you have made some true friends in China,though some people say some improper words which offended you,please don’t care about it,every person has a emotion that sometimes out of control,and I already had enough of them when I was looking through words from some English websites.Just be cool.
Thank you for being so kind to listen.Meanwhile,I want to give you a suggestion,it may help you to know China well if you want,that is “to Learn the Chinese Language”.It may be a challenge to you,because Chinese is considered to be the hardest language to learn,but if you can understand the language ,then you can understand the people,and you begin to know the culture of this old nation,you begin you understand the way they are thinking,and you begin to know the real China.
After you really know this Country ,56 peoples living in it,you may begin to understand why China is so different from the rest of the world.
It may be a long and hard term if you decide to learn Chinese Language,so good luck with you.
It’s just a suggestion,and it’s OK if you don’t want to .
Hi Robert,I submitted my new comment earlier this day,but for some reason(maybe the webserver?or some net problem?),I can’t see them.
Whatever,thank you for your writing back,I appreciate that.
My early comment suggests you study Chinese Language as a way of understanding China and its peolpe,if you don’t like,just foget it,Ithat’s only my advice.
Thank you again for being so kind and reasonable.
Hi Bob,
After having read your suggestion items, I think you are far from understanding Chinese people.
I don’t know why this kind of perception you could have. Perhaps it comes from the people who you have contacted with.
The problem is I think the Western media told you you always think are correct. Therefore the Chinese people told you must have been brainwashed. It’s you who don’t retrospect whether all of the “Truth” you get are correct, not just the Chinese people.
Chinese people same as the people at the rest of world are willing to talk about politic freely. Once the ideas are different, please listen both sides and try to find evidence, not just jump into the conclusion taht the other side must be brainwashed.
Your suggestion to your western friends is regarded by me as nonsense. You didn’t tell the true fact although you have spent so many years in China.
“Chinese people are easily offended by political comments directed at their government. When you are making negative statements about their government they will react as if the comments are being made about them. Whatever you do, make sure that you explain that your comments about their government do not reflect your feelings about the people. ”
If someone has strongly opposited to you about the issue of China, that means your information must have been something incorrect because most of Chinese are shying to express if they don’t have confidence on the answer, but if your idea could be proved by them is wrong, they have confidence to express it out. The best way to solve this problem is to show both evidences instead of saying “don’t talk with Chinese about politic”. I could tell you most of Chinese people are independent thinkers.
I wish you’d better learning Chinese culture and characters. Seems that you have more lessons to learn on these areas.
Jason,
You show your true colors in your last comment. You say that “if someone has strongly opposited to you about the issue of China, that means your information must have been something incorrect because most of Chinese are shying to express if they don’t have confidence on the answer.” In other words, anytime I say something and my Chinese friends disagree with it, this means that I was wrong or that the information I was using was false. Jason, that is a classic case of “brainwash.” It’s because of such statements that I do suggest to teachers to avoid the topic of politics in China.
Most of the Chinese people who I know are willing to talk about politics on their own terms. If they can’t convince you that they are wrong, they become angry and defensive. I am not making this up, my friend. In reality, most foreign teachers know that they have to be careful about talking about politics in China because if they say something that offends their students, the students can go and complain to the government and get the teacher in trouble. I know teachers personally that have had this experience. The best way for a foreign teacher in China to have a peaceful life is to ’shut up about politics.’
Hi Bob,
I used worlds “must have been” and “Strongly opposed”. That’s the condition. I mean that there is possible what you said is incorrect. I didn’t conclude that you must be wrong. That’s different.
All the tibet and Taiwan’s information you have is only single side. If you and your colleague regard these information as the truth, it’s predictable it could not be happy discussion.
Suggest your teacher not to talk this kind of sensitive topics is ok. But the reason to avoid this kind of talk is not because of brainwashed students. It’s because of your single side information which resulted in difficulty of communication.
Although you said you didn’t trust CNN very well, you thought what Western media talked about the Tibet, Taiwan are 100% true. And the rest of your colleagues have the same kind of concepts.
Plesae rememer that We are Chinese and we know more about our government and Tibet than you as we are living here since we are born and we are able to get any kind of information more than you can imagine. A title “Brainwashed” can not be explained to everything. Wish from now on, you could throw this hat away and never put this into your Chinese students. I could tell it’s unpolite.
last time you asked me to give Tibet Exile website:
http://www.tibet.com/
http://www.tibet.net/
and this one is our goverment
http://www.tibet.cn (Chinese)
http://eng.tibet.cn/ (English)
It’s quite beyond me why you understand we Chinese this way, what is more inapprehensible is that some people who never been to China(I dare say) go so far as to agree with you, say post 2 and 3 . In fact, we often talk about politics, even in class. And we would even criticize our government sometimes. Obviously you need to get to know more about China.
Luzezhong,
Thank you for your post. I congratulate you if you are in fact someone who has an open mind about politics in China. While you may be free to talk about politics in your particular school, I would ask you to consider that this ‘freedom’ may be restricted in other schools and universities. I did not make up what I wrote about teachers being dismissed from universities because of talking about politics in class. Unfortunately, it happens. I wrote this post to warn teachers that talking about politics in China can be ‘risky’ especially in class. Schools that I have worked in have warned us repeatedly not to talk about politics and in some cases our contracts include language that prohibit us from doing so. Perhaps you should learn a little more about what it’s like to be a foreign teacher in China.
There is no question that USA and its most faithfull ally UK considered China as its biggest rival in the future. Large amount of money is being spent to manufacture anti-China propaganda. The most tragic part is, most westerners don’t realize that their Governments are feeding them propaganda. Chinese people，otoh, have high index of suspicion.
There are about 5 mil ethnic Tibetans in China, mostly in remote and isolated western China. It is amazing how this small community generate so much news for the world media. Taking a closer look at these news, one will find that most of these news have originated from 3 main sources
(1) The Tibet Information Network (TIN), based in London
(2) Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy, based in India.
(3) International Campaign for Tibet.
All 3 organizations have one thing in common ie they all receive funding from the U.S. National Endowment For Democracy #(NED), a CIA front specializing in psychological warfare. News from these organizations are usually pick up by Reuters and AFP of Europe, Associated press of USA and Sidney Morning Herald in Australia. They eventually penetrate into the secondary markets all over the world. Most of the world’s news papers simply copy their international news form each other. It’s easy, cheap and good for the balance sheet.
Other NED funded organization that has been in the news included the Reporters Without Border.
The London based Tibet Information Network (TIN) also receives funding from the British Westminister Foundation For Democracy (WFD). WFD is a British equivalent of NED of USA. It is London’s contribution to the Anglo-American propaganda war effort against China. TIN’s senior staffs are mostly from the BBC and is one of the main outlet for Dalai Lama’s propaganda.
Few people will dispute the fact that these reports are highly biased, but when they are circulated by the world’s leading media groups such Reuters or the Dow Jones (AP is member of DJ group) most readers will accept their reports without too much question.
For background info on NED please read:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6530
Declassified CIA document on CIA operation in Tibet including annual payment of US$180,000 to the Dalai Lama.
http://www.intellnet.org/documents/700/040/744.html
Please, before anybody accuse me of being brainwashed verify every thing that I have said.
Yuyung…LMFAO….you saying propoganda does not exist here? Are you also thinking that China-US relations have not improved over the last 50 years?
Hello
Just an idea comes to my mind when I read the comment from Robert Vance n°16:
“….I would ask you to consider that this ‘freedom’ may be restricted in other schools and universities. I did not make up what I wrote about teachers being dismissed from universities because of talking about politics in class. Unfortunately, it happens. I wrote this post to warn teachers that talking about politics in China can be ‘risky’ especially in class. Schools that I have worked in have warned us repeatedly not to talk about politics and in some cases our contracts include language that prohibit us from doing so. Perhaps you should learn a little more about what it’s like to be a foreign teacher in China.”
I just image that in if it happened in US schools and universities, that a chinese or iracain teacher talked about the politics in class, especialy said very bad things about US or US gouverment, such as “US is the international killer ” something like that… Do you think that he would not have any problem in US? I do believe that the famous FBI will engage in the affair, or in the better case they would “just” lost their job in the school or university…
So I do think that It’s not a problem about talking about the politics in Class, it’s about the way how (&/or what) they talk about it.
Do you know what exactly being talked in class by your friend teachers who have been dismissed from universities after that?
–> this is a pure question, to help me to analyse the “risk” level.
Regards
Livia said: “I just image that in if it happened in US schools and universities, that a chinese or iracain teacher talked about the politics in class, especialy said very bad things about US or US gouverment, such as “US is the international killer ” something like that… Do you think that he would not have any problem in US? I do believe that the famous FBI will engage in the affair, or in the better case they would “just” lost their job in the school or university…”
@Livia,
The actual situation in America is actually quite the opposite from what you wrote. Most of the public universities in America (and many private as well) are filled with teachers who have nothing but bad to say about America. They say exactly what you wrote…”US is the international killer” etc….they think that America is a big bully and that Americans should be ashamed of their country. In my last semester of college, ’some’ years ago, 4 out of my 5 teachers were from foreign countries and they had nothing but negative things to say about America. They constantly bashed the Iraq war, President Bush, and America’s world role in general. No one lost their job. In fact, most of them were applauded for their strong anti-American sentiments because half of the American teachers agreed with what they were saying. Why? In America, we have free speech. We can say whatever we want about the government (short of making a terroristic threat). I hope you were just being funny when you mentioned the FBI. What do you think the FBI is? The thought police? The FBI is not going to investigate you for calling America “an international killer.” They would investigate you if you made a direct threat on a government official or a terroristic threat.
My teacher friends who have been reprimanded or dismissed by universities were simply expressing an opinion that someone else didn’t like. That is how it goes in China; you are allowed to express your opinion about politics or religion until someone gets offended. In my experience, Chinese people get very defensive and angry when you disagree with them on the Tibet or Taiwan issues and in the case of these teachers, someone complained.
If it’s ok to talk about politics in China, then why are many foreign teachers specifically prohibited in their contracts from bringing up political issues? Quite simply, it’s because the government here as well as many of its people cannot handle someone other political opinions. It hurts “their feelings.” That is exactly why I have warned foreign teachers to be ‘tread carefully’ when it comes to discussing politics here.
The topic is right.
But the way you are thinking is wrong,I think.
Every country is different ,the people are different,the way they are thinking of course is different.
I learnt from the internet that some indians want independence from the States,why the American people do not let them do it…
no very long ago,the Americans killed so many indians ,robbing theri lands,I think the americans should return the lands back to the indians,because the lands belonged to the indian for thousands of years.
When the American civil war began,why you guys just let the south got its own independence?most of the people from the south were willing to get independence from the States,why just let them do it,the States are democratic States.
even today,your prisident started war again and again,killing thousands of lives,the people who chose him as the head of the country twice are to be blamed more,I think.
Even when you are expressing opinions like”American an international killer”,proving you are free to show your own ideas ,do not forget,you are still playing the part of “internatinal killer”,killing thousands more lives.Saying is much easier than doing.
The Chinese people love theri country,The American people love their country ,is there any difference between them?
After 911,foreigners were so afraid to talk about plolics in american ,because the americans are so willing to revenge,people are becoming offensive when you were saying “The american govenment deserve this…”,the americans of course became very angry,we can understand that,but why the americans can not understand the others in the world.
It hurts “their feelings.” who does not have a feeling?just because there are so many diffenrences in different countries,we need to know their feelings,we need to understand their feelings,we need to know why they are feeling like this way or that way,if we don’t even know why,we don’t even want to know why ,haha,I don’t know what to say then…
I wish you do not feel offended…
wish you good day..
I am a scandinavian who is very interested in Chinese culture. I have studied traditional Chinese medicines for four years and Chinese ways of exercise for over ten years. I have also traveled to China, sadly only over the course of one month when I was placed in Nanjing Municipal Hospitals for acupuncture practice. Some friends I made there I still have contact with per e-mail and letters.
In the same way, today I have some Chinese friends and they feel absolutely free to tell me and talk about about what they are not satisfied with in Chinese politics. But If I without knowing them already had verbally attacked their society, however, perhaps they would have responded in a defensive way which would make some think that they are “brainwashed”?
My personal experience is that if you openly criticize the Chinese government in front of strangers, many Chinese will react with insult. But this does not mean they are brainwashed! Perhaps they percieve you as acting superior? As a Norwegian, if an American comes up to me and tells me my country is being run in a ridiculous fashion, I respond with dismay and tell him in no uncertain terms what I think about american society. I start listing up reason for reason about why our social democracy is humanistically superior to the USA. But with friends who know me, and respects my position, I can debate the problems of scandinavian social democracy and even acknowledge that on some points, even american market liberalism (or chinese communism for that matters) have some qualities that our society do not contain!
I’m sorry for the length of this comment. My personal two cents: why not ask a new chinese friend openly about politics and how chinese society works, rather than criticize it and offer your own opinion straight off the bat? After all, the “brainwashed” Chinese ARE more knowledgeable than you on what it’s like living in communist China. (this was not directed to any one person on this blog, it’s just a general comment)
Winter Said,
“After 911,foreigners were so afraid to talk about plolics in american ,because the americans are so willing to revenge,people are becoming offensive when you were saying “The american govenment deserve this…”
Really? Foreigners were afraid to talk about politics? When did that happen? There were plenty of Americans who said the same thing.
I still stand by my article that talking about politics in general in China is not a great idea. I have seen too many Chinese people ‘fly off the handle’ and go beserk when a foreigner does not agree with their point of view.
In your post you yourself just referred to us as international killers. Great. That’s your opinion. I’m not going to call you names and say dirty things about your mother. If you look around on the internet you will find Chinese people who have said really nasty things about me simply because I did not agree with their opinion. Most Americans can handle criticism of their country; we’re used to it. Most Chinese cannot; they will defend their governmen to the death.
Spring said,
In the same way, today I have some Chinese friends and they feel absolutely free to tell me and talk about about what they are not satisfied with in Chinese politics. But If I without knowing them already had verbally attacked their society, however, perhaps they would have responded in a defensive way which would make some think that they are “brainwashed”?
@Spring,
Defensive is one thing; downright rude is quite another. Of course everyone is defensive about his or her own country. I accept that. But resorting to personal attacks goes well beyond being defensive. I don’t expect Chinese people to roll over and play dead. I do not do that either. But I do like to have a civilized conversation with people. Which is what we are having here now.
I have traveled around the world. I have talked politics with people in many countries but never I have encountered such hostility towards differing opinions as I have here in China. That’s the truth.
I am sorry if some of my words make you angry,and I am so ashamed that I am uncivilized.
“In your post you yourself just referred to us as international killers. Great. That’s your opinion.”I am sorry ,but the truth is clear,people innocent in IRAQ are killed everyday by the American troops.Maybe “killers” is not a word liked by Americans,but there are do a lot of people in the world call you this name,not me.
“I’m not going to call you names and say dirty things about your mother.”
It seems that you are really angry,To tell you the truth,I am not happy for this.
“If you look around on the internet you will find Chinese people who have said really nasty things about me simply because I did not agree with their opinion.”
I believe this,and I am really sorry for that.I also wish I will not get any really nasty words from any americans.
What I want to express is that there are so many differences in the world,we have to understand each other.The way you are thinking about China and Chinese is not right.
“Really? Foreigners were afraid to talk about politics? When did that happen? There were plenty of Americans who said the same thing. ”
Maybe what I said before was wrong,because I just read them from internet.
“I have traveled around the world. I have talked politics with people in many countries but never I have encountered such hostility towards differing opinions as I have here in China. That’s the truth.”
Like I said before,there are so many differences in the world,and maybe you and the people who you talked with in China did not realize there were misunderstandings between you and them.but still sorry for the hostility you have encountered.
Wish you make more friends in China,and know more about China and Chinese people.
if you observe carefully the comments flow you would notice that its all about CHINA and US!!
the post was about chinese politics,sadly the comments are about how Chinese views how the US sees.Culture misunderstanding is one thing.Politics is another.
Most chinese posters here are really scripted!!same old propaganda.th article was about politics in classes.where did Tibet came from??
this was aimed at Foreign teachers.what u know about that my chinese pal??
its sad to see that soo many people speaks the same thing.its as if they don’t think at all.
With all the bad things the US has done through WAR.I would never Question the level of Freedom of Speech that exists in that country.almost perfect.
same can’t be said about china(which is the main point here incase u missed it).
so, chinese friends, its about foreign teachers to be careful not to think china is US or EUROPE for that case.and its not about china is bad.ayt??
one last advice:disagreeing with the government does not make u less of a CITIZEN.it does not put an asterik in your patriotism.its just expressing opinions.
@Winter,
I never referred to you as uncivilized. You have always been very polite in expressing your opinions and I appreciate that. Your contribution to this forum is much valued because it seems you are not blinded by your media. You do think things through and I respect that.
I am also sorry that I have encountered such hostility not because it hurts my feelings but because I think it causes me and others to unfairly assume that all Chinese people are like that. You have proved that is not true.
@Ammy,
Thanks for your comments. You do hit on something that most people seem to miss. This entire website is aimed at foreign teachers in China. For better or worse, I have a lot of Chinese people who view this website and they don’t understand that I am simply giving helpful advice to teachers. They turn it into a heated political discussion. I am more than willing to engage them in discussion but I wish they would understand who exactly I was writing too.